ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Ansul systems

Hello

I have a commercial cooking hood protected by a brand new Ansul system. The hood has exhaust as well as make up air fans. The Ansul installer walked away from the job w/o tying in the make up air to his Ansul panel. His panel provides two sets of auxilliary contacts. Both with N/O and N/C options.

My question is this: Is he responsible for NFPA 96 compliance ?

NFPA 96 reads that when the Ansul system discharges the make up air to the hood must shut down. Obviously his panel provides the contacts for this yet he did nothing.

The feed to the contactor is ten feet away from his Ansul panel so tying it into his N/C contacts is easy but how does one go about testing functionality ? Shouldn't the

Part 2

Shouldn't the Ansul installer have tested the entire system including the make up air disconnect ?

I don’t know the particulars of your area but generally the electrician is responsible for the hook up, and testing of the make up air shut down. The ansul system can be tested without discharging the product if coordinated with the ansul installer. Usually all power under the hood must be shut down also.

I've never had a fire suppression guy that would touch electric or fire alarm. Both of those trades had to come in after work was done to hook up their respective equipment.

But I've also always been told this ahead of time and found it written in the contract before work started.

Thank you for your replies.

Just a suggestion. Use electrically held contactors for the circuits you need to shut down rather than the often suggested shunt trip c/b's. More reliable, easier and less $$.
You'll just use a contact in the Ansul Panel.
Don't know your particular case scenario, but should get a Change Order if it's not shown on the plans.

french fryers- grills under the hood must shut down when ansul trips .remove four screws on front of panel,with pin in place.in case system is charged.(if cables are running thur the hood and lead link is installed) should be able to pull pin that go in red button on front of ansul panel being careful not to push it in (then un screw co-2 cartrige .you will need contactors for appliance that requires shut-down

Everything under the hood has to shut down when the Ansul goes.

All of my loads under the hood are fed from contactors with common coil feed. The hood has two weatherproof light fixtures underneath it. When you hit the single pole switch to power the lights you simultaneously energize the coils for these motor feeds. I simply need to interupt this switch leg line side with the N/C contacts on the ansul system. My worry is about testing the functioanlity after the fact. I am going to start leaning on this Ansul installer.

Thanks for all of the replies. This forum is a great knowledge sharing resource that makes us all better electricians.

"Everything under the hood has to shut down when the Ansul goes."

Is this NEC or building code???

GJ

The exhaust fans are supposed to continue running to pull the smoke out.
I beg to differ with you, electure, about the electrically held contactors. IMHO Shunt trip breakers should be on all the electrical equipment under the hood. Any gas equipment should have valves that shut off as well. I don't like the idea of cooking equipment being dependant on an electrically held contactors. I submit this for your consideration, sir, with the utmost respect.

Ansulogical Regards,
Doc

NFPA 96 spells out the requirements.

exhaust may stay running but make up air has to shut down.

ansul valve cuts off the gas.

What does NFPA say about lights and appliances???

I am very interested because we are currently doing a commercial kitchen. It was engineered so that only the supply air is cut off. Electric range, lights, etc. all stay on.

GJ

I believe all electrically powered cooking loads / recepticles / lights have to be de-energized when the ansul dumps. Nothing can be live under the hood when it goes.

All of this is subject to the inspectors interpetation.

You should take a look at nfpa 96 for a clearer understanding.

When the commercial kitchen ansul system is actuated should the building fire alarm system also be actuated simultaneously?

The last couple of commercial kitchens I have done required a fire alarm tie in. They also had a "ventilation control panel" which allowed the chef to manually turn on and off hoods but in the case of a fire alarm signal, all supply fans shut down and exhaust fans turn on. I agree with the shunt trip route opposed to the contactors. Also wanted to put my 2 cents in that all electrical needs to be shut down when the local Ansul station is activated. Makes sense if you figure the foam may have some sort of electrical conductance as well as shutting off whatever appliance may be involved. I say local because the kitchens that I have done have more than one Ansul cabinet.

Watt Doctor,
I was just about to post the same note, about 8 years ago, a kitchen in one of the high rise office buildings had a fire gut it, underwriter inspection showed, someone put relay in place of required shunt breaker. It failed to operate. Cost to building owner $250,000