ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Low voltage undercounter lights

Sorry Scott,

Under cabinet light would be the correct term. The installation has a transformer in the basement, and NM-b wire run through the wall. But the splice to the LV light fixture is spliced and pushed inside the wall, and the tile is grouted. So, I can't see the splice. I don't know what kind of a splice it is. It might be soldered?, wirenut?, crimp? Don't know, can't see. Not sure if this is a proper wiring job. My question would be, Does the splice have to be visable to make it a proper wiring job? Section 411 of the NEC doesn't say anything about it. Should the job pass or fail?

HArold

Harold:
IMHO, a "red" sticker would solve the problem
Splices have to be accessable.......
Now we'll see the arguments liven up.

An "accessable splice" discussion with the offending EC should prevent this problem in the future.
John

What about 400.8 and 400.9? Also 411.4 does say you cannot run thru a building wall.
I do not know of any of these puck lites that have a long enougn cord not to have a splice somewhere.

How does article 400 apply to this? 411 Mentions nothing about splices whatsoever. Reference to accesible splices on low voltage systems? The correct wiring method was used in the wall. The system only operates at 12 volts. I see your point about wanting to see the splices but also the Ec was probably thinking he was doing a nice job for the homeowner by hiding the splices. Did you ask what he did? Are you comfortable with his work? If so I really don't see an issue here.

I think this a golden example of the baloney marketed falling in our trades lap.

In a perfect world, there would be some sort of feedback, rating or other group communicado from the trenches to UL, CSPC, or similar consumer report from us

I use a lot of the Seagull ambient LV lighting. A #10 zip cord snaps into a low profile track and I put a 2 bulb fixture with 2 5 watt bulbs at each end and about every 12 inches. Customers love it!
Some notes: The zip cord is not UL rated so you cannot run it inside walls and a connection to NM cable is necessary.I use crimps and a telephone jack box with the guts removed. Rather than paying $100+ for their xfmr. I sometimes use the $39 151 watt xfmr. that HD carries. That's my input on over counter lighting.
Bob

Electricmanscott,

The problem here is that no one called for a rough inspection. There was only a final inspection called for. The electrican is new to me, so I have never seen his work. It might be OK, but I didn't see anything. I see NM wire in the basement, (No enclosure for the transformer or splices. low voltage or high voltage connections) The NM goes into the wall, (I guess, everthing is run OK.)

Hotline 1,

A red sticker is easy to give the contractor, however if I have to back it up, I would need a code section. I can use sec. 411 of the NEC to make sure the right wire is used. How about 300-15 (a) (1999) NEC? That says that nonmaetallic sheath cable, or other cables.. need a box or enclosure.

Harold

Hello Harold...
Back at your favorite topic I see!
OK, here's my 2 cents to you question ('02 Code).
411.4 requires a Chapter 3 wiring method where the under 30 volt lighting system is extended thru a building wall. Nonmetallic sheathed cable would seem to be acceptable.
300.15 (revised) wording requires a box or conduit body to be installed at each conductor splice point, outlet point, junction point, termination point (call it what you like)if the wiring method is nonmetallic sheathed cable.
No wiggle room here.

Are the lights equipped with flexible cord?? 400.8 says it cannot pass thru holes in walls, 400.10 says the must be strain relief at joints, 400.14 says bushings or fittings are required where it passes thru holes in covers, outlet boxes or similar enclosure.
Need I go on??

Take care, J.

Harold:
Seems like someone beat me to the response.
Well said JES!
I didn't post the NEC articles when I posted the "red sticker" reply, 'cause it was a long day...

If you only did a "final" did you note "Visual" on the TECH Card??? CYA!
John

John and John,

Well I will let you know how I make out. Tommorrow 12/5 I have to go back for a "final" inspection. Yes, I will put down on the inspection card that a visual is the only thing that I will inspect. I will have some questions about the installation for the contractor, (I think that the contractor will be there.) I also will ask again about the splice between the NM wire in the wall and the low voltage wire from the light fixture. We shall see.

Harold