ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Paint on wires

Harold:

I am sure you would have a problem with an installation that looked like this one! It is a good reason why we have 110.12(C) in the code.



Photo courtesty: www.codecheck.com

Two things:
Joe:
Looks like someone "ticked-off" the painters!

ElectricBob:
I believe that Arlington makes an inexpensive plastic "cover" that you can snap into your boxes to keep the wire clean. I saw it in EC, or CEE, or IAEI mag. (We don't do houses, and the comm painters are "Neat freaks", so we're lucky.
John

Paisley or Mezzotint? Picasso or Mondrian?

Joe,

That picture is great. Glad my problem doesn't look like this one. My problem "Might" turn into a lawsuit. I am not sure just yet. Someone in a condo was mad about everything in the condo. ( Light fixture not centered over table. Telco jack in wrong spot. Needs another 3 way switch. etc.) Some of the things are not a NEC violation, however this person complained that light fixtures weren't grounded, and that there was paint on the wires. Well on a final inspection, Inspectors don't carry ladders around with them in order to drop down light fixtures to see if they are grounded. There is a "qualified" person running the job. ( Lic. elec. cont.) An inspector can remove plates from a site and check into the boxes, but not in every one. The overspray was there, but you could move wires around and still figure out which is white, black, red. Plus you could scrape off the paint, (If you tried) Another question was, Does the pin back device scrape the paint off as you insert the wire into the device? The questions are not trying to defend either the homeowner who is questioning things, nor trying to protect the electrical contractor. As long as everything meets the intent of the code, is safe, and isn't a shock hazard. Isn't that what inspectors are suppose to do?

Harold:
The "back-wire" on devices MAY remove some of the paint. Guess the EC had them stripped?
That's a question for Leviton, Eagle, etc.

IMHO, the EC should have re-stripped (???) the conductors if they had paint on the ends.
"Overspray" is not an NEC violation, unless the paint can cause damage to the conductor insulation.

Your other points:
Fixture grounding?; No, I don't carry a ladder on inspections either, and can't say I know of any inspector that does 'round here. Wouldn't be enough hours in the day if dropping fixtures. Catch one of the 'lectricians with a ladder, or if there's one "on site", I "pop" a few for a look-see.

We try for "quality" not "quantity" inspections, the "boss" looks for an average of 15 a day. (Rough, Final, CCO, Resi, Comm, Ind.; it don't matter).

John

Harold,
'painters' , as well as 'mudders & tapers' are always filling out boxes with thier unwanted presence.

i just get my trusty T-5's out and clean what has to be terminated....

John,

I have to agree with you too. As an AHJ, we are there to "Verify" that the work is being done correctly. We are not there to "Certify" the work. If I was to Certify the work, then I would have to be there the whole time the job is going on, be on their payroll, and run the damn job myself. I would hope amd rely on the EC on the job who does have the license, that HE is watching his people to make sure that they are doing the work as per the NEC. By The Way, I read the new ICC Mech code and receptacles and lights on the roof for HVAC equip., is not in there. I guess that lights on roofs for HVAC would then become a utility (gas co.) requirment. NOT NEC or ICC Mech. code.

Sparky,

You and I would be the type of contractors who would try and clean off any/all paint on the wires before installing devices. However some contractors might not so fussy. My question gets to be very particular, when I ask the question about the paint. A law suit might come about ( I doubt it though) but who is to say how much paint is too much? As John stated, I guess that only the manufacture of the device would be the person who would dertermine "How much paint, is too much" for his device.

Harold:
Not to beat a dead horse, but....
From reading your resposes to the continuing thread, I have a question...
Is the "bottom line" the fact that there is paint on the stripped conductors where they are terminated onto the devices?? (Either stabbed or screwed).
If that's the case, then it's sloppy workmanship, right???
John

John,

The bottom line is that the contractor feels that there is not enough paint on the wire to be of any concern. On the other hand, a homeowner saw paint on the wires inside of the box and complained to the DCA. My boss (Construction Official) sent me out to investigate. I wrote a report very cut and dry, telling of what I just saw. Nothing more and nothing less. My boss wants me to close out this situation, but I feel an expert (Manufactures device engineer, or a paint manufactures engineer) should be the one to make that determination. I feel the experts should fight it out in court with expert testimony.