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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 869
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Member
What about upgrading the wiring ?

Talking about putting in 20 Amps brakers, fine.
it would be a good idea to check the wire size also, as that may be not adequate for the size of the brakers and cause excessive voltage drop under high loads and or possible fires.

A clean, new cable from the switchboard from adequate size would be the best option.


The product of rotation, excitation and flux produces electricty.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8
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workn26 Offline OP
Junior Member
I agree totally with both of you. The frustration with this whole ordeal was that because of my regular job I am in no position to start tearing his walls & ceilings up for him and he was totally expecting me to be able to, as he put it, "stabelize" the situation for him in an evening. I explained that the problems he was facing was not beyond my scope, just that if I were to make things right it would take me and someone with professional drywall skills more than a weekend to complete. All of the wiring that I saw was 12 gage, which was good for 20 amps max, but I could see that the insulation in some of the outlets was degrading (splitting in some places as if someone drew a sharp razor blade down part of its length) so keeping the actual load on each branch circuit should be more in line with 15 amps. He has room in his panel for more breakers and room for extra loads on the 200amp feeder for me to add extra circuits. His basement was partially unfinished so I suggested that he move his computers down there and I could run a new branch circuit or two in that area--he didn't want to compute in the basement--he didn't compute in my mind period. After getting a good idea of what the situation was and since I had agreed to help him, my goal before leaving was to safeguard the obvious threats of fire and to give him a honest and sobering assessment. After becoming a little animated with him over the phone when he called me last night and told me about the 30 amp breaker switch he had done, I called him this morning and explained that although home owners sometimes get away with such jerry-rigging that it was against code to put a 30 amp breaker on a branch circuit supplying general receptacle & lighting loads for a reason. What he did is asking for a fire and not only is he risking the lives of whomever resides in the house, but if there is a fire he could fully expect to pay for all of the fire damage out of his own pocket; the insurance company would void his policy when they inspect his panel. I also told him that aside from going the route of pulling some extra circuits, he would have to balance some loads by moving the physical location of the equipment (his computers) to circuits that weren't heavily loaded already.
My brother is a automobile mechanic and a recent story he told me kind of reminds me of this situatio. He had a customer come in and tell him that the air conditioning in his car needed recharging and that he could tell by the way his car was handling that not only were his break pads on their last couple of millimeters of use, but that the car was shaking violently at times when he applied the brakes. My brother removed his tires and told him that there wasn't much left of his brake pads at all, and that his rotors were too thin and warped to be trued because he had been driving the vehicle for so long in a state of disrepair. The customer explained that he didn't have a lot of time and could he just recharge his A/C for now because the weather here in Virginia was getting too hot for him to drive without his A/C. Unreal.
You serve people best by being honest about a situation and not pulling puches; you can't force people to be resonable.

Dan


lu#26
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 44
T
Member
The world definitely has no shortage of morons - I think Washington D.C. has the highest percentage per capita.

But anyway....also keep in mind that the older NM cable from the 50's-60's has no ground wire and contains conductors rated only for 60 deg. Celsius. Down here in the South, I run into a lot of this older wiring. The problem is that when you get through with adjusting the wire rating for the high attic temperatures (140+ deg F), you're left with very little safe current carrying capacity. More modern NM cable is rated for 90 deg. Celsius and can handle these higher attic temperatures much better.

The point of this is that a 12-guage wire isn't always capable of carrying 20 amps safely. Your friend's problems may be even worse than you originally imagined if he has this older wiring.

Kevin


Kevin
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8
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workn26 Offline OP
Junior Member
TNSunny,

You're a very observant person. I'm from Alexandria, VA which is two miles outside of Wash., D.C. and although I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, from D.C. area drivers to the basic common sense vacuum that I run into while dealing the highly educated population around here--I have to agree. I moved to Winchester, VA severn years ago (11/2 hours northwest) and these country boys out here are pretty wild but down to earth.
I really appreciate your comment about the NM cable because it's right in line with what I witnessed, and his home was built in the 50s. I probably should've recommended that he buy only 15amp breakers.
I've calmed down a bit since the other day and have decided to continue to help good ole' Dippy out. Like a lot of electricians I feel that once I've touched a project, no matter what the problem, I really have got to follow through--he is my friend.
Thanks for your post Kevin,

Dan


lu#26
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