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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,382 Likes: 7
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Paul:
'Evening, my friend, long time, no type.
Honestly, nothing can stop work after the zoning/permit/inspections/approvals/CO. I 'see' this happening, not a lot.....but.
IMHO, as long as the service is adequate for the load being connected....
I have not had time to read the whole thing yet, but enforcement will be tough. After all a 'man's home is his castle', and it can get pretty chilly in your castles, right??
Take care
John
John
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 794 Likes: 3
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What will stop people just getting the house permitted and built, then going back and adding the electric heat afterward?
As mentioned further above, electric rates of around 13 cents/ kilowatt hour will pretty much stop everyone from even considering doing this. Seems like a non issue. Are electric clothes dryers included in this?
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 132
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This has been the law in CA for quite a while. Most people did not even know it was a law because nobody in their right mind would want to pay the utility bill for electric resistance heat in the amount needed to heat a house. We see suplementary portable units here and there, but no permanent installations. Natural Gas, heating oil (monitor style units), and propane work just fine at a fraction of the cost.
A comparison of costs between NG and electric will make the economics obvious. Let's assume we need 100,000 BTU's per hour, and we are using a modern condensing type furnace with a 94% effeicency.
NG= 100,000BTU x (1/0.94) x (1 therm/100,000 BTU) x ($1.25/therm NG) = $1.33/ hour
Electric (100% Eff)= 100,000 BTU x (1KWh/3414 BTU) x ($0.12/KWH) = $3.53 /hour
It costs 2.6x to heat with electricity. Prices are off the latest PG&E bill.
Mike
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,382 Likes: 7
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Mike:
Thanks for the formula, 1KW+ 3414BTU's
John
John
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Joined: Apr 2002
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BTW:
Used to tell people 'electric heat is the cheapest to install, initally or retrofit; but you WILL pay in the long run'
Based on the 'news' of rates for oil & NG that the dooms sayers are predicting, who knows
Using Mike's numbers, quick math $1080 for 30 days (24/7) for gas, and $2880 for elec.
John
John
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 361
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What will stop people just getting the house permitted and built, then going back and adding the electric heat afterward? A CO..which requires heat. For that matter, the plans would NEVER even be approved w/o sufficient heat plans. The cost to install a gas/oil/LP system and then rip it out and re-install an all elec. system borders on the insane...but hey, this IS NJ and waterfront CONDOs are going for $5,000,000 (with ALL electric utilities ~ that's the job I am on now)...so who knows???
~~ CELTIC ~~
...-= NJ =-...
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,931 Likes: 34
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If you have natural gas piped in that is a good number, although I understand gas will see a 50% hike this winter. Propane is already going out of sight here in Florida.
Folks with propane pool heaters are going with a "heat pump" electric. I got a less than one year old propane unit for $1000 off of the price of a new one because the owner was switching.
Greg Fretwell
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Nat Gas/Propane is going to go up in the next couple months, at least 40%! This may or may not make electric heat a better bet. Where does your power come from? In my case, it's about 43% nat gas(according to PG&E). So, the KWH rate is going to go up as well if you have a lot of nat gas in your power content.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,931 Likes: 34
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Florida may be a special circumstance but we use a lot of space heating for a particular room. That is hard to do with gas or oil. As energy starts getting more expensive I think we will see people using more bathroom heaters to knock the chill off when we get out of the shower while the house as a whole stays cooler. For us it is just a case where the house is cold when you wake up but it will warm up naturally during the day. I probably only use "central" heat 3 or 4 days a year but my wife uses the radiant heat in the bathroom almost every morning, (even in the summer ![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/eek.gif) .) [This message has been edited by gfretwell (edited 10-26-2005).]
Greg Fretwell
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Joined: Feb 2002
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Greg,
We don't have natural gas in my area. You either have to use electric, oil, or propane. I myself have small electric bath heaters and they work great adding just a little more heat in a bath when taking a shower. I use oil fired baseboard heat through the whole house. 6 different zones but why raise up the temp of the whole zone when you are taking a shower? Actualy isn't electric heat 100% efficient? There is no waste going up the chimmney, is there? It is also the most expensive.
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