ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Homeowner pack service panels

I have never seen them called "Homeowner packs". The ones I see at the Depot are called "Valu Packs". Hal, you are in the wrong country buddy.

In MA the electrical supply houses will sell to anyone that will pay with cash or CC. Sometimes it is difficult for the DIY’er to get what they want because of the inexperienced way that ask for what they want.
Not like Grainger that only sells business to business.
It's funny that MA allows a HO to do their own electrical work and will also let them get a HO permit to do so, but won't allow them to do their own plumbing. It must be that they don't want the faulty wiring that they do to ignite the fumes form the faulty venting they might do. Only one hazard allowed per house...I guess.

Just yesterday a GC told me about a HD where the city made them stop selling indoor NM cable and BX. These wiering methods are not alloud any where around the area but home owners were installing it. Then the home owners started useing the UF cable to wire the inside of the house because the indoor cable was gone. So then city banned the sales of that too. After that there would be home owners at HD saying they need 12 90's 2 45's etc. pre bent 1/2" EMT.

Around here they managed to keep furnaces (except small garage) and central A/C units out of the home centers. I would say the HVAC people enjoy a better mark up.

It's not just the HO at the box store that is the problem. Even if the HO could not buy the materials at a box store or supply house, I'm sure any unlicenced handyman service cuold set up an account at a supply house.

What if you need a copy of a building permit stating electrical service work will be done before you can purchase service gear? Maybe in the permit have it say how many of what equipment will be used (like 1 meter, 2) 100 amp panels, 1 mast). Limit the purchase to those items.

The home centers might not want to take the time to do the paper work (some placesw only have 2 check out people per store) and stop selling the products. Or at least it would be sold from a counter person.

That's my idea. Just make it happen now.

Tom

Tom, the fact that romex is not allowed in that area is another ridiculous rule. Probably brought on by someone trying to keep people from doing electrical work.

Sometimes I wonder where some of you guys are coming from. Here we have something that is not only a ligitimate safety issue but it undermines our business, credibility and profits as EC's. Yet you just shrug your shoulders and say it's a free country.

The reason the plumbing trades and the HVAC trades have these restrictions in place is because they have strong trade group leadership that has the clout to make sure these issues are addressed and are favorable to them.

Maybe we need to take a lession here. If you don't like the fact that the big boxes sell electrical items to HO's why do you buy there? Patronize your local supply house, around here the prices are the same or better anyway and they have what you need.

If supply houses want to sell to non-profesionals at the same prices they give to you let them know that they won't have your business. If enough of us do this you will see how quickly the situation changes. My supply house has a big sign that says "Wholesale to the Trade Only!"

-Hal



[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited 01-29-2005).]

Here in Canada, the problem of Home stores selling materials to unqualified people has been brought to the Electrical Saftey Authorities (ESA) attention time and again.

My understanding, and I felt the best compromise, was the ESA urged these outlets in the past to be sure that the homeowner gets a proper permit for the work they do. I do not see a problem with a homeowner doing their own electrical work if a proper permit and inspection is done.

If the homeowner decides to opt out of a permit/inspection, let him suffer the consequences. If in doubt, hire a pro.

Sounds simple to me, however, I do feel that these stores need to post bigger, and clearer signs regarding such and educate people further and better on the importance of obtaining a permit/inspection.

NM cable is not allowed in a large part of Northern Illinois (Chicagoland). We do work in Lake, McHenry, Dupage, Cook, Kane, and even Kendall Counties. Every municipality has there own code. In those Counties I would guess 95% of the municipalities are pipe only. How long it's been like that depends where you are. Depends when the town was started. I would say on average it's been pipe fo 50 years. A number of old single family homes were done in ridgid before EMT was used.

Maybe someone elce around could tell the history of pipe in this area. I wonder if Chicago was allways pipe.

If it keeps someone that can't bend pipe on a permit job from doing electrical work than I say GOOD.

Tom

Hal I don't disagree that there are real safety issues involved. But, where would YOU stop? Roofing shingles? Lumber? Auto parts? Sharp knives? McDonalds? Any of these things could cause you to be just as dead as an electrical screw up. While I dread working in a "handymans special", banning everything that is dangerous would go against everything I beleive in. (Which isn't much but a free society tops the list). Que the Star Spangled Banner......

Tom, do they still use hand augers to drill the holes?

We found that all the panels and breakers were 10 to 20% more at the home centers, no bargin, the local supply house always beats them on everything, but some wire, and some pvc.