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harold endean #203727 10/20/11 10:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
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The job was suppose to be a small commercial job with steel studs. The EC drilled 2 small holes in the stud, stuck a tie wrap through the holes and pulled it tight. It held the BX/MC close to the steel stud. He got a failed sticker. My thoughts to him was, Is the tie wraps Listed and labeled for the application? If so, then he should not fail the job. However if they were not listed the AHJ had every right to fail him.

Now comes the all important 90-4 section of the NEC. Should the AHJ fail him for that?

harold endean #203730 10/20/11 11:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
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No, that is not a valid fail. 90.4 don't work. That siad, drilling the holes for the ty wrap sounds more labor intensive that using an MC/BX/AC one hole strap & zip screws!!! But, commonsense is not in the NEC either.


John
harold endean #203733 10/21/11 12:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
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If the guy took the time to drill 2 holes I am not sure why he didn't just use a one hole strap and a tek screw but I would pass the tywrap.
The intent of keeping the cable away from the rockers was met.
"Cable tie" is one of the prescribed strapping methods as Niko pointed out.

The one I have problems with is when they just wrap it around the whole stud and sort of center the cable before they pull it tight.
I assume the rocker will cut it anyway so his rock will lay better. I have never had it on one of my jobs but I saw it in single family with Romex, my wife's job. Shortly after that they started using tywraps with the screw hole in them and a tek. I don't know if Lee County busted them or what.


Greg Fretwell
harold endean #203735 10/21/11 09:34 AM
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I see this on resi basement jobs that are framed with 2x3 steel studs, perimeter walls. The tele data guys use ty wraps with the screw hole & tek screw.



John
harold endean #203736 10/21/11 09:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
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John,

Again, common sense doesn't come into play here on either side of the job. My only reason for this whole question was that an EC complained to me that the AHJ failed him for using tie wraps. He wanted to know if he could fight this one. My first response was that if he could find something in the manufactures instructions, then I thought he could win. No instructions, then he might have to go by what the AHJ wants.

harold endean #203737 10/21/11 09:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
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Greg,

I also have seen tie wraps with the 1 hole in it so that all you do is tek screw and tie tight. I think it is a quicker way to install. I used to use the metal BX 1 hole straps to mount BX also. That was another way to do it. I have also seen where EC's use every trick in the book to try and save every cent that they can on a job. Especially right now when the bidding is so tight. My old boss would make me drill 2 holes in a metal old work box, then cut it in next to a stud. This way he could save the use of 1 madison bar holder. (The metal strip which looks like an "F" that holds old work boxes in the sheet rock.)

harold endean #203741 10/21/11 10:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
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Harold:

IF that 'fail' was taken to the Board of Appeals, the EC would previal based on 330.30 Period, done deal)

The real world situation is, how bad does the EC want to stand his ground? Unfortunatley, time is a precious commodity, and a delay of job for at least 30-60 days can be costly to say the least.

Plus, there are other repercussions that may occur!


John
harold endean #203743 10/21/11 01:12 PM
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Back in the happy days my wife says they had the cost of a house delay figured to average $350 a day, just in lost interest on the money. That is why they pushed so hard to keep things moving.


Greg Fretwell
harold endean #203745 10/21/11 04:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
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And there's the politics of fighting and winning.

AHJ's hate being overruled.

Our working philosophy is to just go with the flow. This has us doing some pretty crazy stuff sometimes.

We just can't afford to be right.


Tesla
harold endean #203746 10/21/11 04:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,294
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The most common method around these parts for MC in a metal stud wall is to secure it with a piece of doubled up tie wire (like the rod busters use), using the pre-punched holes in the stud.
Inexpensive, readily available, and quick.

I've never seen any inspector question it, much less cause a ruckus over its use.



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