ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Re: New product

Serving a carear of bad terminations, i'm sure we'd all agree on proper methods.

It's most likely our number 1 service related event , so it's also something we give a lot of consideration to

that said, why buy into all these quicky widgets that may end up a pita?

~S~

I disagree with the tinning of stranded wire and then inserting it into a screw tighted connection. When you tin the wires, and then compress them, the solid mass will sometimes fracture. This leads to a loose connection. That is why soft copper ferrules are used with fine stranded wire when using screw down connectors.

Let's nip this one in the bud ...

I have used stranded wire with connectors of this type - both 'In-Sure" and manufacturer-supplied, and it's generally not a problem.

You really have to untwist, mangle, and insert at a sharp angle to miss the groove in the clamp. The curved throat of the clamp really does guide the wires into the clamp.

Plus, with OUR wire, at least, the exposed 3/8" or so of stranded wire isn't very flexible at all.

Another forum, a few years back, had all manner of hissy fits thrown by the established members. Even after an Ideal spokesman joined the discussion, they continued to wail "I just don't understand ..." It was more a case of WON"T understand. The factory rep finally gave up, stating: they're listed, so too bad.

I hope we dn't reach that point at ECN. Go out and get some - most parts houses have bins of free samples - and play with them. If you like them, use them. If you don't, use something else.

Also, please drop the 'cheaper' cant. The connectors cost more than even the quality wire nuts (2-color Scotch-lok 2's) that I like to use. If you use the Wagos with the little levers, you can spend as much as 35 cents for each one!

Usually, even the most reclusive dinosaurs among us end up at a parts counter somewhere , and are exposed to the latest Reno

I'd say we're all hip to the good/fast/cheap axiom juggling act in the trades too, being a somewhat inescapable doctrine one realizes with any trade rag's advertising shtick

That said, would anyone here like to be the test pilot for this quicky wiget behind each splice in string of receptacles, because the manufacturer's rep said they were the best thing since jelly on toast?

if you've your druthers, .... please, let's not mistake discression, which is always prudent to profit, for obstinance, which really isn't

~S~

You may be right about that Larry. All I know is that it seems to be an industry accepted practice from way back when.
I know when I replace the keyed brass sockets on lamps, I often see factory tinned wires wrapped around the screw terminals. I do also see those short crimp on copper fork terminals or the brass crimp rings on the end of the wire being used quite a bit as well though.

Yes, the Wago connectors with levers are prohibitively expensive for general use, this is why they are only used for connecting light fixtures here (about the only likely situation where you'd want to splice solid and stranded wires in "household sizes"). While stranded wire is perfectly legal for fixed wiring, it isn't used for two reasons:
- it's bigger. Since the nominal cross-section of stranded wire is the sum of the strand cross sections, there's always some air spaces between the strands that makes the outer diameter bigger than that of solid wire the same nominal size, and it's enough to be an issue.
- connections. In "extended VDE land" ferrules are mandatory for conencting stranded wire to anything but explicitly listed Wago connectors (the one with the levers), and most devices with push-in terminals (i.e. 95% of what you can buy today) aren't listed for stranded wire at all, unless special ferrules with gas-tight crimps are used... thus, using stranded wire will drive installation cost through the roof. So stranded wire ist mostly a DIY special. When I encounter it and can't replace I usually crimp regular ferrules and pigtail using screw connectors only for this run.

Tinning wire ends has been banned by VDE eons ago, I think late 50s or early 60s. Prior to that it was frequently done and each and every burnt Schuko plug I've seen had tinned wire ends... tells a story I'd say.

Wow, I'd have fits if I couldn't use stranded wire, particularly in Walker Duct.

As for Ideal's new product: I wish I'd had it the last time I faced short taps. If ever you have to produce timely service work, then you know that re-pulling conductors is just not going to be tolerated.

As for second guessing Ideal -- I don't.

I must be lucky -- but I've never had to go back and correct my work due to faulty materials or installation. But then, I never rush make-up, never use the cheapest materials on offer to pinch a penny.

As for Ideal quality: they are the preferred make of wirenuts out my way. We go through them by the bag and the drum.

Here's a video of a Wago 273 being stress-tested at 100A... it only melts when the wire itself is already glowing red!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMG66uUp5cM&feature=related

Gee,

I didn't realize that I started such a large discussion with a very small sentence!