ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Readily available (Ha Ha) AFCI Receptacle!

I guess the real question is how much they would cost. One of the big advantages of the GFCI device is the lower price, compared to a breaker. This still looks like it would be aimed at the retrofit market and if someone really does have that old a panel, they probably need a panel upgrade anyway.
I can see using the device, next to the panel, for a small addition though, if the AHJ only required the new work be AFCI. Without device AFCI protection available, you would be setting a small sub panel.
For that use, you would want a dead front device.

This has been a matter of much discussion and debate, since the wording was added into the NEC about the metalic raceway requirement to the first device to protect (AFCI) downstream.

Opinions were tilted to the installation AFCI, where required (additions) via installing a subpanel, utilizing a metalic wiring method to 'satisfy' the wording. However, further debate could not substantiate the requirement for metalic wiring method for the subpanel.

The accepted solution resulted in an Article 300 wiring method feeding a subpanel, and AFCI from that sub.

A lot of us are wondering why that wording is within the NEC, when no device is available.

Probably need? That's a bit beyond the scope of any code.

Let's not let 'best' become the enemy of 'good enough.'

More specifically, the UL/NFPA/CPSC study of older homes confirmed what we 'knew' all along - that there was nothing inherently wrong with old installations simply because of their age. Knob & Tube, fuses, 2-wire circuits were all just as good today as they were at the time of installation. Where hazards were found, they involved things that were never legal- over-fusing, improper splices, broken components.

Another common point for trouble was where an unqualified person later added to or 'improved' the existing wiring.

From 2001-2007 I lived quite happily with a 30-amp service, and still only needed three of the four fuse positions. Ironically, when I brought the place up to current code, I needed 100-amps and 10 breakers. Considering the extremely limited counter space in the kitchen (appx. 18"), I'd love to see someone try to plug in more than 15 amps worth of appliances.

For the NEC, these days, to attempt to mandate that the tiniest repair set in motion a cascade of requirements that, ultimately, would require a complete rewire of a home is outrageous. There is a very real need for an AFCI device.

... like a toaster and a coffee pot?

I can install arc fault protection in a new house or addition from the panel on circuits that I install because I know where they go and that they do not share a nuetral. What happens when I install said device in an older home and it will not hold. Do I then open up every box that may be on the circuit and troubleshoot to find the problem. Hopefully it is not in the wall. You could get into a rewire of a home to get it to hold.

That is always going to be a problem when you are retrofitting AFCIs. The most likely scenario is a ground fault on the neutral. That will be fine forever on a regular breaker but an AFCI will fail as soon as you add the first load.
The old Kludge "J" box over a fan with too many wires in it is usually where I have hear of this showing up. That one big wire nut with all the neutrals in it has a little bare wire showing and it hits something when you jam it all back together.
Maybe it only hits when the fan starts shaking things up

Greg,

I know how to fix the problem, we should just gut every house down to the bare studs and wire everything up new. This way we can put in GFCI, AFCI, TR receptacles, WP rated GFI receptacles and we would all live happily ever after.

Shhhh.

Don't give them any ideas.

LOL