ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area 3 season rooms.

When I priced out impact windows we decided there wasn't going to be all that much "sun" in this room. They are something around $45 a square foot, wholesale in the box

As luck would have it, I've just come from a 'sun room' addition, installed over an existing patio.

This sunroom was part of an assembly, and not something cobbled together by the homeowner. I noticed that receptacles were installed on every major partition divider, giving a distance of about 8' between them. Cables were routed through an integral channel, sort of a variation of the "Wiremold" concept. The receptacles were GFCI protected.

John,

I hope this message goes through. The last time I posted the computer puked and locked up.
As for the 3 season room, II was not really talking about the "conservatory" style of room. They do have heat, and can be used year round. I was talking about the porch that is converted to a "room" by the loses of terms. The "room" might have screen windows, might not, might even have 1 panel storm windows. Maybe some insulation in the wall, maybe not. They are rarely used in the winter., Would they need outlets as per code?

Harold,


I think the "sunroom" that John mentioned above defines the subject well.

We in California, Arizona, Hawaii, and Florida can use the screen rooms, etc. year round.

Harold ... at some point, one has to apply "common sense," consider the context, make their call, and be prepared to persuade a dozen strangers to agree with them.

West of Chicago, an "adult" bookstore converted part of their store to a place where one could watch the films. The store said it was just a 'viewing room,' thus exempt from movie theater requirements. The AHJ replied that the room had 25 seats, the seats were on an inclined base, the screen was 12 ft. high .... as far as he was concerned, it was a theater. Litigation began, but the store owner had to conceed that it sure looked like a theater! Issue resolved.

The same issue arose in one home, were the 'flipper' was trying to present a garage conversion as an additional bedroom. The only problem was, that in order to get from the kitchen to either the patio, or the detached new garage, one had to pass through the converted garage. Pretty hard for that to be a bedroom (Though I was raised with such an arrangement for a few years!)

Again, when visiting my Grandmother, I was usually 'put up' in the room that had originally been a porch. With just enough room for a bed and a space heater, this completely enclosed space was a 'room' in every sense of the word. Later, it was filled with shelving, and you could honestly say it was a 'pantry.'

That's why I placed the stress on 'habitable' space. Closets, pantries, mud rooms, etc. do not need to meet the same requirements are actual 'living' space. You really need to take things in context.

Customer cleverness aside, it does seem that architects delight in designing spaces that blur distinctions. Article 90.1 aside, the NEC is most certainly being used as a 'design manual,' and even the most exclusive properties are built to 'code minimums.' At some point, the market has to kick in, and reign in these excesses.

Like the experience of that 'flipper,' who listed that house as having three bedrooms. Viewers who really wanted three bedrooms walked away in disgust; whatever that room was, none could imagine sleeping there!

Again, AHJ judgement has to enter the fray. As Reno said, Grandma's area transitioned from a 'sleeping area' (in a pinch probably) to a storge area (pantry).

We had and still have 'flippers' and we also have HO's that finish basements, some of which are used as sleeping rooms, although they signed affadivits that NO sleeping rooms would be within the basements.

As I said above, after a 'pass' on the final insp., I have no further jurisdiction.

Harold, I would lean toward the 210.52 side, no matter how many months this is habitable space. What? we don't care about summer only hazards? The intent is not to have extension cords strung about the place.
I might give a guy a break if he had a place in his cabana, virtually impossible to get a wire to but he better have one as close as he can get.
I had my elecrical plan done before my structurals but I am an electrical inspector.
"Here are my outlets, build walls around them"

Just to bring this thread back to life .... I recently had a chance to see a professionally manufacturead and installed 'sun room,' covering what was once the patio. Here's a pic:



As you can see, at every other window is a receptacle.

Reno:
That is one of the 'styles' I see here.

BTW; what's the wide mullion type thing to the left of the receptacles??

I think that they simply made that area wider, to accomodate the wiring.