ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Mini Split voltage
by Garemaret - 06/21/24 04:53 AM
Strobing LEDs
by Anovalight - 06/20/24 03:16 AM
Stuff that happens after we leave
by HotLine1 - 06/17/24 03:53 PM
photocell requirement for metal halide ballasts
by gfretwell - 06/17/24 01:44 PM
Commercial lift stations
by triple - 06/09/24 05:23 PM
New in the Gallery:
This is a new one
This is a new one
by timmp, September 24
Few pics I found
Few pics I found
by timmp, August 15
Who's Online Now
1 members (Scott35), 156 guests, and 13 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#180489 08/27/08 06:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 251
W
Member
Looking at a job, question came up. They have a built in microwave. (not a vent hood type) The receptacle for the microwave is located in the cabinet directly above the microwave with a hole in the bottom of this cabinet to which the cord to the microwave passes thru. I think this is a code violation (although I see it alot)Am I correct?

Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:


>> 2023 NEC & Related Reference & Exam Prep
2023 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides

Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with the Latest NEC & Exam Prep

>> 2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
 

WESTUPLACE #180490 08/27/08 08:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,386
Likes: 7
Member
Standard install along with a single receptacle. Same basic set-up for a cord & plug connected dishwasher.


John
HotLine1 #180492 08/27/08 08:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 3
Cat Servant
Member
It's a good point ...and I just did such an install today!

That's exactly what the instructions specified; and the way the cord exited the microwave, I defy anyone to do it otherwise.

Yet, that does seem to conflict with the NEC rule against passing cords through walls or partitions. Perhaps - and I'm just guessing here - it's allowed here simply because the receptacle is still readily accessible. Such is not the case where the receptacle is in another room.

As such, though, I'd insist the hole be large enough for the plug to pass through.

renosteinke #180493 08/27/08 08:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 764
K
Member
IMOP, No violation there.
400.8 says flexible cords are not permitted be run through walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings or floors. Cabinets themselves have tops, bottoms, sides, faces, etc… but generally don’t qualify as walls, floors or ceilings.

KJay #180505 08/28/08 10:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,386
Likes: 7
Member
Reno:
The debate here at the NJEIA meeting was that a 'cabinet' shelf/wall/divider is not a 'partition', but a single, solid membrane. Now, run the cord thru a 'wall', that's a no-no.


John
HotLine1 #180507 08/28/08 12:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 3
Cat Servant
Member
Hotline, KJay ... I am inclined to agree. Indeed, for dishwashers, I much prefer an accessible plug under the sink, to either hard-wire, or a receptacle buried behind the unit. The challenge comes with the next step ....

IF such an assembly were submitted for listing, it would be expected that the opening be large enough for the plug to pass through, and that there be no sharp edges to damage the cord.
While that might be 'common sense,' I don't see anything in the NEC to require such measures. Conceivably, one would be allowed to make but a notch at the back of the cabinet to let the cord alone squeeze through, then mount the cabinet permanently to the wall.

Yesterday's microwave was such a case; for some reason, the installer started with but a slot, then changed his mind, and made a hole. Why? I have no idea.

renosteinke #180509 08/28/08 01:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,386
Likes: 7
Member
Reno:
I neglected to mention that the 'hole' must allow the cord cap (plug) to pass thru. A slot/notch buys a red sticker from me, and the other AHJ's here. The 'cord' must be NEC compliant for the DW and GD's. Most, if not all micros have factory cords.

Yes, good old common sense is not in the NEC


John
HotLine1 #180512 08/28/08 04:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,335
S
Member
By passing it through the bottom exposes the cord to damage when someone stick dishes or pans in the cabinet thus it is a violation.

Last edited by sparkyinak; 08/28/08 04:01 PM.

"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
sparkyinak #180519 08/28/08 08:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,386
Likes: 7
Member
SparkyinAK:
I see your point, but have not seen or heard of any problems. If the receptacle is behind the micro, there may be the possibility of cord/plug damage also? Right??
How about the 'fridge being pushed back to far...oops, the cord shorted out. I guess the recessed box & outlet (bubble cover competition) would solve the behind the fridge problem.



John
HotLine1 #180522 08/28/08 09:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,335
S
Member
My respone is to the OP. It was a "fixed" microwave and the recept was passed through the bottom of the cabinet above. Therefore the microwave is not blocking the cord thus anything could in theory can be placed in the the cabinet. Since the cord is unprotected, it is exposed to potential damage. It is not a matter if anyone seen or heard problem. An unprotected cord put in a place in an area of potential damage is not exceptable (NEC 400.8(7)). If the recept is behind a fixed microwave, someone has to go out of their way to damage the cord.

As for your refigerator comment, if both receptacle and refrigerator are properly installed there will be no damage to the cord.


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5