ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Voice - Data - Video Discussion residential structured cabling

I agree with pretty much everything you are saying.

And I would love to run conduit to every room in a house.. But trying to sell that as a feature to an assembly-line home builder who then has to try and sell it to a home owner, who then has to understand they still need to pay more to actually run cable through that conduit isn't going to happen.

In fact, you'd be lucky to get that to happen with the million dollar homes too. Those people pinch their pennies even harder than the $300K homes... which is probably how they became millionaires in the first place.

However, I've had some good success in getting people to spend $200 for a basement to attic conduit (builders price, not mine)

And usually when a home owner gets that, they have me come in afterwards and add wiring to their second floor that would have cost 3 times as much through the builder.

Another example for a sales pitch.

I just spent 5 hours tonight mounting a plasma above a fireplace and running cables. Mounting the display only took 45 minutes.. it was the fishing, pulling, drilling, for the cables that was the pain in the ass. (Combined with the fact that the home owner insisted I use his cables, which I kept telling him were too short, but he didn't believe me until I pulled them)

Now if he had a conduit from above the fireplace to beside, it would have taken another 15 minutes to do the cabling.

So for new home owners, this is also something I am recommending.. conduit from above, to beside. Not going to put a display there? Then put a picture to cover the inlet and thank me later when you do actually want something electronic above the fireplace.

Wow, you aren't kidding about the attic-basement conduit. I can honestly say that I have only encountered ONE of them in my entire 30 year career. I can't swear that I didn't steal a future vent pipe for a bathroom in the basement but I'll never know for sure.

Even though I preach "empty conduit", it's still impossible to know where one needs to be. What about furniture relocations? There is no easy answer. I just don't see a simple answer until every low-voltage system can operate using one wiring medium. At the same time, these devices require power, so on that note, we are back to square one. This is not an easy topic to resolve.

Maybe a good idea would be for builders' associations to collect their thoughts, gripes, customer expectations and suggestions together and present them to the NEC (NFPA) AND the EIA/TIA in a uniform front. This way, they they can join forces and create a united standard. It doesn't seem to be too difficult and would certainly make the act of meshing the trades that use copper wiring into one that will communicate a lot better.

Thanks to all who have been willing to listen to both sides of this subject.

Note: Builders are cheap. And builders will do things only because it's a code requirement.

So if you want to make changes to the way houses are constructed, you need to either make it code, or cheaper than what they are currently using.

I would run 2 RG6s to at least the main living room tv and the basement High Def Big Screen why? because most of todays Satellite receivers have 2 inputs for dual tuners and the Hard drive for the PVR portion. Also with these units you can feed out to another TV location which requires another RG6 cable

Doug, you used the phrase "most of todays" as the reason for what you do. How about yesterdays or tomorrows equipment?

Buildinghomes, I agree with your point about builders being cheap but that actually works in getting them to install conduit- sell the customer on the benefits and charge extra.

-Hal

thanks for the feedback guys, but EV607797, when you say leave an empty conduit and let the professionals pull the wire in???? I am well aware of what the professionals do, such as stapling wire to the surface of the wall even after I provide a conduit for them. In this case as a journeyman electrician, I would be 'the professional' and a box of CAT5e, the ethernet standard cable, is about 180.00 for 1000 feet,so I am hardly trying to upsell anything, what I am trying to do is give the customer plenty of capacity and redundancy and a few runs at rough in stage is pretty cost effective. That being said, conduit stubs is good, but you need access to have a place to stub them, and trying to stick to 360 degrees of bends in wood frame can be a challenge.

Gee I thought my post would have people thinking about 3 RG6's to one location

I am well aware of what the professionals do, such as stapling wire to the surface of the wall even after I provide a conduit for them.

No, those aren't professionals. They would be your trunk slammer, computer geek or IT "professional".

That's the problem, everybody wants to get into the act but few actually know what they are doing. Just because somebody says they do this kind of work and have it lettered on their truck doesn't mean that they are competent.

It's a source of some extra cash for a lot of people and that's what it's all about.

-Hal


[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited 01-09-2007).]

Well I don't have it lettered on my truck.. No sense in attracting more attention to expensive tools on a construction site

But I am also the IT geek. I've held the positition of IT Manager at several companies and got into wiring because I didn't like what I saw installed before me.

I have lots of experience fixing other peoples mistakes. Things that are so obvious that you wonder how the person thought it was going to work in the first place.

I consult home owners, I consult the building plans, I respect the other trades by not interferring with existing or future infrastructure, I follow accepted practices, I use quality cable and connectors in the proper fashion, and I even label all my runs! (unlike the previous contractor here)

I read and keep up on trends and requirements. I actually _enjoy_ doing this stuff much more than sitting in an office.

And if given the opportunity, I even advise the home owners on the benefits of conduit