ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion Building Codes for Electricians Residential Venting

Hi Bill. I was refering to bathroom exhaust fans. They sell many that are "ductless" with a charcoal filter. They are not permitted because exhaust is required to go to the exterior, as discussed earlier.

As far as the glazing goes, if you have 1.5 square feet of openable glazing in the bathroom you need not provide a fan, but if you do, it must duct to the exterior.

If you want some real fun reading with glazing, read the "hazardous glazing locations" section in the IRC/IBC, and try to make sense of it...see ya in a few years! Lots of controversy in that section.

Seems that I have always seen EFs vented to exterior.
On the Residential stuff I did, the EFs were definitely vented to exterior.
In Commercial, the only reason an EF is not ducted, or vented to exterior is because someone fell across the duct, resulting in a nullification of the once-continuous vent path.
Secondary results are usually "Ceilings With A View" (leg holes thru drywall), and lots of pain to the duct-removing / viewport-creating person(s).

As to Glazing;

Want to see some high level "Red Tape" in regards to Glazing? Check out the California Energy Commission's Building Standards Manual for Residential and Non-Residential Occupancies.
Great reading for the Anal Retentive readers
Actually, the Glazing Specs. in the Manual (known to be Title 24, Part 6 - Chapter 2: Building Envelope), are very interresting. Many formulas are listed for use to achieve the target goals needed for compliance.

Along the lines of high functioning / Marathon Mission reading, the entire T24 Part 6 Compliance Manual is great for those like me with no life, and so is the typical Project Specification Manual!

Never seen one of the "Ductless" EFs that Ryan is referring to - maybe because I haven't contiplated their existence.?.?.? Have to do a Dedicated Browsing Trip to the local Orange Box to see one of these Animals upclose!

Scott35

Scott: I wonder if the California regulations you refer to are at all similiar to the International Energy Efficiency Code. That is, the building as a whole must comply with a certain value, which can be achieved even with cheap windows if the insulation (or other factors) are done well. There is free software available that you might find interesting to determine compliance. One is called "MECcheck" and could be easily found with a search. Also try searching "ASHRAE" for another software. Sorry I don't have the URL's on hand.

When you go to Depot or Lowe's, I'm sure you'll see the fans I speak of. Take care.

Oops, almost forgot:

Roger;


LOL!!!

Glazing ver.3.1.020.330050a For Windows 9x / M.E. / N.T. / 2000 / XP
(Windows 3.0 / 3.1 / 3.11 not supported, due to 32 bit limitations - these versions may be referred to as "Single Pane Windows").

Microsoft strongly suggests the user installs the most current version of Direct-X in the Walls, prior to installation of Glazing for Windows, ver 3.1...
Direct-X 5.0 is oldest known version to be beta tested successfully with this version of Glazing for Windows, ver 3.1...

Macros may incorporated, and interfaced to other Walls via Active-X.

Prior to installation of Glazing for Windows, ver 3.1..., verify ample free space is available on the target drive Wall for the installation routines.

Before performing installation of Glazing for Windows, ver. 3.1..., remove any existing versions of Glazing for Windows, from the target drive Wall, using the application's uninstall routine.
Restart your Car, then proceed to install the newer version - Glazing for Windows, ver 3.1...
Do not install this newer version of Glazing for Windows, ver 3.1. over any existing versions, as this will result in instable conditions.

This would be the "Quick and Dirty" description from MS.
If anyone read the older MS text manuals (like "Introduction to Windows 3.1 for example), the above stuff will make you laugh!

Scott35

Bill
The numbering is the same.

Talk about vocabulary:
How about Fenestration?

Pierre


[This message has been edited by PCBelarge (edited 01-04-2004).]

Ryan;

Check this link out, and let me know if the standards are similar:

Nonresidential Manual - 2001 Standards

The California Energy Commission Title 24 homepage can be used to do further searches.

Mentioned in the Standards Manuals, these implements have been taken into consideration by the remaining 49 States, as basis for constructing similar efficiency standards if and when a given State plans to move in this direction of Energy Conservation.
With that being said, the standards might very well mirror those in the IEEC.

For the compliance forms and project designs I deal with (Subchapter 4 - Lighting Systems and Equipment), all is done within AutoCAD with custom made templates and database listing OLE, so no helper application is needed.
Compliance forms are .DWG templates, which get attached to planset as an XREF. Stand-Alone 8½" x 11" hard copies are printed from the separate .DWG file, which get included with Planset when delivered to Building Department's Plancheck ("loose sheets" for filing).

As to the ACMs (Alternate Calculation Methods);

I have heard of "MECcheck" before, and may have seen it referenced on some plansets.
Some Approved Computer Modeling Applications are:
EZ Frame for Modeling of Framed Assemblies,
Visionsoft for MEP design compliance

ASHRAE Fundamentals Handbook is used as design standards in the Appendix for both the Residential and Non-Residential manuals.
Illuminance Categories are taken from the Office Lighting American National Standard Practice ANSI/IES RP-1, 1993.

Gotta quit typing and watch TV! I have a bad case of rubberneck between TV and Monitor - resulting in this message (and many others tonight) taking 3 times longer to post!

Scott35

Ryan,

I haven't see those Fans yet. I'll have to take a look around.

Pierre,

Fenestration? Now that's a word!
Haven't come across that one yet.

....I won't go looking for it just yet either.

Bill

Is that a window of opportunity?

[This message has been edited by Hutch (edited 01-04-2004).]

The fenestration value of a window is a measurement of how much heat/cold can come through a window, in a nutshell. Typical values are between .50 (bad) through .25 (good).

When I do a 4-way inspection, one of the things I look for is this value on the windows. If the MECcheck shows compliance with the IECC by using a .35 U-value and .50 windows are installed, the GC can re-submit the MECcheck showing the lesser windows, or they can remove and replace them. A normal fix would be to increase the insulation in the roof from an R-38 to something higher until the MECcheck shows compliance.

BTW: You New Yorker's are something else, staying up until midnight, talking aobut fenestration values and glazing!!!

[This message has been edited by Ryan_J (edited 01-04-2004).]

Ryan,

This is EXCITING STUFF!!


Bill