ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion Building Codes for Electricians Cliffhanger

Here are a couple that are a little bit of a stretch.


Could we consider the retaining wall a "architectural appurtenance"?


A real stretch but what do you have to do to gain entrance to the working space, walk along the top of the wall?

Guard rails are required anytime you can fall more than 30". I can get the gaurd rail, no problem, but is that the cure-all?

So: You are the electrician changing out the main breaker, or you are the POCO investigating a broken meter seal. There is a gaurdrail (probably conductive) to stop you from falling the 12' of this wall, but what about the balancing act required to do your job...gaurdrail or not?

I don't think this panel belongs here. I take great pride in enforcing the minimum code, as written. This is a tough one for me though.

I'm going to get the POCO involved to see what they say and see if we can't get this thing moved. But what if weren't service equipment, what if it were just a panelboard?

I think this is a very serious issue, and I also think that the NEC is silent on it. Should it be?

Great discussion so far, as I was hoping. Keep it up, I think there is much to discuss here.

Ryan,

How about a Reinforced Concrete pad in front of the Meter and a guard rail to the left and in back of the working space(L-shaped railing)

BTW, our local utility has requirements that exceed the NEC's Minimum working space requirements. Maybe your POCO has similar requirements?

Bill

I would suggest that the evaluation be made based on the 'readily accessible' criteria. Basically determine if the box and associated hardware is one of those items which is required to be readily accessible, and then determine if the surrounding conditions provide the necessary access.

As far as I know, a meter is not required to be readily accessible by the NEC, but may be required to be readily accessible by the power company. On the other hand, the power company may be using some remote meter reading system, and not particularly care where the meter is located...in the greater Boston area I've noticed a number of meters sitting high up on utility poles, supplying things like cable or telephone equipment boxes.

Junction boxes in general are not required to be readily accessible, but they cannot be buried.

Things like breakers and disconnects however do have to be readily accessible in most circumstances.

If the enclosure contains the main breaker or disconnect, then IMHO you should require a flat platform or pad with safety rail sufficient to make the enclosure readily accessible. If, on the other hand this box simply contains the meter, then I don't believe that the electric code would provide a basis for requiring changes.

I do not believe that accessibility for repairs is sufficient basis for requiring better access. It might be that an electrician working on this box would have to set a ladder from the base of the retaining wall rather than being able to stand at grade level, but electricians working on ladders is not extraordinary or inappropriate.

A question along these lines: if code requires readily accessible disconnection means in any given circuit, can you additionally have inaccessible disconnection means? Or does code require that if you add a disconnect it must be readily accessible? If, for example, there is a breaker in the enclosure being discussed _and_ a main breaker in the panel inside the house, then would the breaker inside the house count as the readily accessible disconnect, and the breaker in the enclosure count as some sort of supplementary disconnect?

-Jon

Ryan,

Just curious, any resolution on this situation?

What did the POCO say?

Bill

Nothing yet, Bill. I haven't been there for a few weeks. They will be calling for a stucco inspection shortly, and when they do I plan on talking with them about it. I will let you/all konw what comes of it.

Hey Ryan, any update on this yet?

Nothing yet, Gene.

I'm the type of person that doesn't babysit a guy. I wrote on about 4 inspection reports that I wasn't going to buy this, and I haven't heard back from them. I guess they want to wait until the final. (by the way, one of my final inspection items is having a meter installed). I'll keep in touch on this.

Does the fire department require access to the meter or disco in an emergency? Maybe that angle will work here...
/mike

The fire codes don't usually cover access to the meter, but the power company sure does. They will refuse to connect power to installations where the meter is not accessible. Codes are debatable and can be appealed through channels, but POCO regulations are etched in stone!