ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Walk in Closet

For me The only way I would consider this is if I could be assured I was really dealing with the AHJ and that AHJ was giving me something in writing that shows they where OK with it.

As without any paper to go back to it is an NEC violation that I could be brought into question for.

I would not put my license on the line simply because a customer does not like the looks of enclosed trims vs black baffles.

It surprises me that so many would.

To each their own.

Yes Sir Bob- Your right on target. If the inspector doesn't give you permission in writing he is breaking the law. (See Special Permission in Article 100)

So you have no solution other than to point out that my suggestion was unprofessional.

So my suggestion now would be, sorry lady, no lights for you. Fluorescent, shower trim, or no lights. NEC says so.

Sure she'll be telling all her friends about how pleased she was with my service and how I couldn't help her.

I realize you were pointing out that this is clearly unprofessional and a violation. That's ok, I can take it. I didn't particuliarly like the way you singled me out though. What I'm failing to understand is how you can condemn me for making a suggestion but offer no other idea, or plan, just a "I wouldn't do that" answer. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

[This message has been edited by ShockMe77 (edited 01-24-2007).]

I actually had the power of the pencil of AHJ in my state job and It was something I didn't take lightly but if those cans were installed as far away from the "storage space" as they would be if they were "outside" a closet in a normal house I might give him a huss.
If they want open cans within arms length of storage space it is "in" the closet.
BTW 410.8 does not say "dwelling". How do you deal with this in a motel where the "closet" is an open clothes rod in the hall, just inside the door. Is that a hall or a closet?
Saying you are looking at what is written on the plan is a cop out. Fire can't read plans.

You can put covered incandescent fixtures in there so long as you meet the clearances as was posted earlier. I go thru this with headstrong bimbo's all the time. They have to be mighty damn good looking to get me to budge.

Be careful what you wish for...

We all know what would be first on my chopping block.


I take it you're unfamiliar with 90-4? Or do you choose to ignore it?

And that Article of the Code allows the AHJ the right to make that judgement call. Who are any of us to say that he's so wrong in this case that the bloody house will burn? It would be his call anyway!

Anyone have documented proof that recessed cans installed as planned here have started any fires/created any hazards beyond the normal use of such lighting in a small space? (edited to add: And since when is 12' by 16' a small space, anyway? That's as big as a lot of master bedrooms.)

As for local amendments, that of course varies. But, I can tell you absolutely that the last six or seven installs for home screening rooms had master suites with walk-in closets. And guess what kind of lighting was installed? Of those, two had LV Halogens!! All inspected and signed off by the AHJ. (As was my projection equipment.) And I can tell you, that AHJ is tough.


No, it is not. That's why this thread is revealing so many different answers to a question that can go either way.

We all know there are no cut-and-dry solutions to a lot of the issues that crop up in any electrical installation. Even the simple set up of a film projection system, despite using the same equipment for 40 screens, you'll see about 40 different variations on set-up, layouts, sometimes panel schedules, conduit layouts, etc.

The Code does allow flexibility. And so far, in this case, as the install was described, not one person here has come up with any solid reasons why one can't use recessed lights!!!

Oh, I have also noticed that no one has quoted the exact Code Article and subsection,etc. this would allegedly violate.


No one is suggesting such. What the OP is looking for is guidance on the situation at hand. And so far, as he has described the proposed installation, there is no violation!

As for selective enforcement, does anyone here believe for a minute that a form of it isn't going on all the time? Take a good hard look at anyone's installation (mine included) and I guarantee you will find some (albeit minor) violation of some Article of the Code.

No inspector is all-seeing, and will not look at each and every fixture, receptacle and j-box in anything other than a very minor addition or renovation. It would be physically impossible and I promise that no one here, me included, would ever pass an inspection first time around if that were so.

Sheesh. Texassparky, talk to your AHJ, get his/her take on this and let us all know what the outcome is.



[This message has been edited by mxslick (edited 01-25-2007).]

Recessed can light with open trim in large walk in closet / dressing room.
Could be OK, or a violation of 410.8.B
The Inspector might have "not noticed" the alleged violation.
Regarding the comment about "Special Permission" being in writing. I had a contractor ask for it only once.
The question was about clear space above the service equipment when the rule was to extend the space all the way to the ceiling/roof. 14 feet above the switch board was intake ductwork for the ventalation syatem. As the inspector I didn't "see" any violation. the general wanted me to put it in writing. I explained that if my pen touched the paper it would be to write up the violation that he had "pointed out" but, I had "missed".
He decided not to see it either.
Next Code cycle the installation was in compliance when they changed the rules.
Alan--

Tony I am not going to respond to your entire rant.


by iwire

by mxslick

You need to read the second post in this thread.

As for the rest I stand by what I said.



Remember inspectors are rarely the AHJ, don't let them snow ya.


Bob

Who's ranting? I'm trying to point out what a lot of us appear to be seeing that you may not be seeing. But you seem unwilling to admit that we all have different backgrounds, each area may have the local amendments that you pointed out in one of your replies to me, and finally you still haven't provided a direct Code reference as to the specific violation in this case. Alan mentions 410.8.b, which would disallow an open trim in a closet.

But, the OP still hasn't clarified as to what this space is called out as in the plans. If, despite it's physical size, it is called out on the reviewed, approved by the AHJ plans as a closet, then I can agree that it must use enclosed trims or fluorescents. If it is called out as anything else (dressing room, dressing suite, etc.), and approved by the building and safety dept as shown in said plans, then by following the strictest interpretation of the Code, then a standard recessed trim of any type should be allowed to pass.



I did and agree that that would not be the correct approach to take. But again, in this case, there is no clear evidence of a violation in the first place. I do not condone willful violations of Code either. And I don't think that person intended it to read as such.


I just re-read Arts. 90 and 100 of my '99 NEC, and there is nothing there saying that the inspector is not the AHJ.

Now can you or someone here (Alan, perhaps?) define AHJ since the Code doesn't?

Seems that by your reasoning, we've all been snowed for a long time.

And in this area, the inspector is most certainly the AHJ.

Tony, the code does infact difine AHJ.


In NC the AHJ is the Department Of Insurance (D.O.I.) which is under the Office of the State Fire Marshal (OSFM)

Inspectors can only inforce what is addopted and / or ammended at government level.

It's kind of scary to think any body calling themself an inspector can make law

But anyways, now you can see where it is important to read the definitions in the NEC as well as any other articles that may apply to your situation at the time.

Roger



[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 01-26-2007).]