Thanks NJWirenut, that's just the info I was looking for. I couldn't agree with you more about the safety factor relative to working live on a ladder. I have no problem paying a premium for that. I do however, work in areas that require the EC to make the permanent connection. From what I read on the Ilsco website I can't see why these would not be approved as permanent connections. Anyone else using these for permanent service connections that would care to share their experience?