ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Damaged outlets

Sponge, you only need to be contacting the wires for less than one pecent of the time (a fraction of a second) to be scarred, crippled, or even history.

Roger

Maybe I didn't convey properly the intended purpose of said device. I am not purposing throwing away LOTO procedures or ignoring safety awareness training, common sense or trying to replace any safety procedures in any way. I am only imagining a simple "backup" safety device which would offer an additional layer of protection. Not to be solely counted on. Example scenario: The electrician has followed all of the common safety procedures before working a circuit. The breaker is locked and tagged. Alas, the negligent person who really needs to make thier photocopy, decides to be the office hero and actually defeats the LOTO devices/warnings and flips on the breaker. At this point, the electrician may OR -may not be- actually coming in contact with the ends of the energized wires. - YES, if the power is turned on at the same instant contact is made with the bare conductors, we all know what happens. This device could not offer any protection at that moment. But, if I were the electrician who happened -not- to be touching the wires at that exact time of energization, it sure would be nice to have somthing like a "last chance" receiver/pager alerting me OR a custom pitched siren screaming at me, while I was still moving my ladder to the next box etc. - before I reach up and grab those hot wires. Any "last stop" ADDITIONAL layer of protection to possibly save my life would be A-OK with me. I guess I could see it like the advent of side impact airbags. Just another layer of design/safety devices to hopefully keep us alive. - Sorry, did not mean to hijack this thread. J-

[This message has been edited by sponge (edited 09-01-2005).]

Where else could a discussion between a guy named Booger and a guy named Sponge not seem ironic?

I believe your siren would probably spook the worker into getting shocked, Sponge. Just a thought.

LOL! That was a good one! -- Even though I think the name is pronounced more like BOUger, which carries a different flavor of sorts... Seriously though, I appreciate ALL the responses. I just have not heard any response yet that really demonstraits this idea as being a bad one. As said in my previous posts, there is a definate varying time period where the sparky would not be touching the bare exposed conductors during the "unknown" energization time frame. I am betting that roughly 75% of the time spent working MOST circuits, that no bare wire contact is being made - There could be several possible instances in that time frame where, circuit has been powered up and contact/shock has not -YET- occured. The warning could sound during those critical times. -- I kind of get the feeling here that we have "enough" safety procedures with our trade and that this would be just another safety device that an electrician would -maybe- reluctently use at best. Perhaps we should not try to improve things too much and just learn to take our shocking experiances like a real lectrician... -J ---- Airbags!!! We dont need no stinkin airbags! (Chevrolet 1970 safety dept. meeting) ----

[This message has been edited by sponge (edited 09-05-2005).]

[This message has been edited by sponge (edited 09-05-2005).]

If someone hooked a huge siren to a dead breaker feeding a circuit that I was working on, and then turned that breaker on, three events would occur:

1. I would jump, startled, and get zapped.
2. I would get up and hammer that siren into little bitty pieces.
3. I would find the guy that thought it up.

Kidding aside, I believe the spooking-into-the-danger factor is just too great, bud.

George - You are stuck on the siren option... How about a gently pre-recorded message sounding from your wireless device on your hip saying... Excuse me george? Your about to get your butt blasted off that ladder! -J

Possibly while playing a recording at the panel. Something calm and understated, for example "Please be aware that you have intentionally endangered the individual working on this circuit. You have been photographed, and this evidence will be presented to the police."

-Jon

-Absolutely! Integrate it all into one working package - Electronics in general, dont cost much today. Why not take advantage of any obvious edge we have available. -J

"Please be aware that you have intentionally endangered the individual working on this circuit. You have been photographed, and this evidence will be presented to the police."

... and Pedro says "que"

Somebody want to tell me how to lock out a 1930s Pringle switch rated 800 amps feeding an air handling motor control center. It was opened and tagged out but the drywall guys screw gun stopped working so he made his way to the electric room and closed the tagged switch. He must have thought it was dammed nice of us to label the switch he needed to close. I chased that bastard for ten blocks and he flat out ran me. I nearly had him twice but power by fear cut in and he put on some extra speed. Maybe it was the conduit bender I was carrying that slowed me down. I have to say that I'm glad he out ran me or I would be doing hard time. While I was chasing him someone else broke every piece of glass and exposed plastic on his car. None of that kept us from first calling the ambulance for our badly burned brother electrician and several guys were rendering aid while I went to secure the circuit. When I found that drywall guy still throwing breakers I just lost it. He was closing everything that was tagged out.

Ever since that incident I fault out any circuit I'm working on once I have locked it out and tagged it out.
--
Tom Horne