ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Proposed definition of Kitchen

dana1028

Thanks you have the same opinion I do as far as 250.114, I only hope we are right.


Very well stated, yes that is exactly what I am having a hard time with, it makes no sense.

And as sparky pointed out, the average homeowner has no knowledge of this info and is not likely to spend $50 to buy the code book to know it.

If they did know it would that stop them?

I would think that 250.114 is there to require those items to have grounded cords, but they still could be plugged into outlets installed under 406.3(D).

IMO If this is not what the NEC intends, the NEC should not allows us to install 3 wire outlets on 2 wire feeds.

A label that says "no equipment ground" will do absolutely nothing, if the plug fits the outlet and the appliance operates the average person will use it.

Bob


[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 06-02-2003).]

I've installed GFI's as a 'quick fix' many times in similar situations.

1/2 of Vermont's residences still operate on two wire systems and probably will continue to do so into the next millenium
(we're big on that backwoods image)


The hardware stores are always full of adapters....

This is yet another example of convienence aparently vetoing safety

It is also an example of the trenches being (once again) the ambassadors of safety while the many orginizations dedicated seem moot.

It galls me that so many similar entities focus on minutia while not confronting more obvious hazards

we could probably beat this around ad naseum here, only to equate to the multitudes of trademen howling in the wilderness rop after rop cycle.

perhaps the best approach is to forward the body count to these guys via this site's help with a petition from here ?

so.....(unless this has all been said and done?) what say the safety guru's of this BB chime in and help us word it



[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 06-02-2003).]

Dana,
I've never seen a double insulated refrigerator, freezer, or air conditioner. If it has a 3 wire cord it is not double insulated.
Don

I believe that they were refering to the "or equivalent" portion of the phrase. Is not GFCI protection accepted as an equivalent level? I have no problem with this except the worry that I would have if I connected my computer equipment up on the GFCI protected 2-prong non-grounded system. Besides the worry of an unwanted trip, the static shock possibily destroying a chip would make this undesirable for computer type equipment, but, it would not be a safety hazard unless you were prone to throwing non-functional equipment at things.

Shane

In my opinion a GFCI is in no way equivalant to insulation.
Don

well, so much for my 'foot-in-mouth' disease.

Bob,
It's the code, who told you that it is supposed to make sense???
Don

Possibly the appliance manufacturers would not use such crummy capacitors...it's their leakage to ground IMO that causes the nuisance tripping.
A system should be free of this kind of junk.
Do it right, or don't do it at all...S

I think congress should enact legislation to require every single residence in the USA to be re-wired and brought up to what an independently appointed team of psychics forecast that current code will be when electricity is not inherently dangerous. Any person not in compliance shall be deported to live in the midde of central South America (or Korea, take your pick) in perpetuity. Obviously any home not wired tommorrow is a saftey hazard.

[This message has been edited by rat4spd (edited 06-02-2003).]

LOL

I was just getting over the fact life is not fair, now you tell me this.

Bob