ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Business Related Discussion Something from nothing... How to build a bussiness?

BWA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

(Ahem)

Sorry, Maintenanceguy, that made me laugh.

The most I've ever been paid was $16 per hour (last August) from someone else (subbing not counted) and the only benefits were the $15 per day per-diem which was a joke in itself.

Even in Wisconsin, where apprentices were making twice what I was (literally- I was making $12.50 per hour and NO benefits, guys there ranged from $25 to $32 plus FULL benefits! I just have the word SUCKER written on my face and everyone knows it!

So, I don't quite have the perspective to understand how I could be better off working for someone else unless they were going to offer some real money.


OK, uh, anybody hiring with a substantial sign-on bonus (at least a loan) and $40K per year plus full benefits?

Didn't think so.


I've discovered that people do like my work, but they're not willing to even pay T&M (@ $25 per and no mark-up).

I've discovered two truths:

1) If you make halfway decent money on a job, (say more than an average of $20 per hour) then you never get called back...

2) Lose your ass and make less than minimum wage (or even pay out of your pocket to fininsh the job) and they LOVE you and you're a hero!!!

I swear to God, I've never had a repeat customer when I was financially pleased with the job.

I think I just want someone to make me a decent offer on my tools... I'm done.

I'm to the point physically that I need a desk job, may be estimating (which I'm lousy at) or something... dunno... My hands hurt constantly, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, Trigger Finger, Arthritis... you all know or are very lucky...

Anyway, my customer should be home now, he was away on a trip for the weeknd...

I do appreciate all the help, I'm not playing devil's advocate here, this is a friggin' real problem.

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 03-14-2005).]

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 03-14-2005).]

Sparky,

After reading all these posts, it is quite evident to me, that you like what you do, and are probably pretty good at it.

However, and take this with a grain of salt:

You need help in the sales dept.
You need help in running a business.


May I suggest two things here.......

First, maybe look into hiring a sales person to sell jobs for you. You take the calls, dispatch a sales guy to "sell the job" for you. Let them quote the price, you pay them 10% of the job, you do the work.

You sound too pasive when it comes to charging people an appropriate amount of money for your time.

Second, take a night course or start reading on how to run a "profitable" business.


Like I stated, take it with a grain of salt.
I'm not knocking you here, I'm just forming an opinion based on your posts.


I hate to hear about guys loosing their business in the first 5 years.


Good luck.


Dnk.......

Maybe it's time to move someplace that is a little less West Virginia and a little more real world. Based on all of your posts in this thread Virgil you are screwed. We've been hearing the same story for years from you. I have come to the conclusion that it is not going to work where you are. It's that simple. Get the hell out of there if you want to make any kind of life for yourself.

You sound like your in a deep hole and don't know what to do. The easiest answer is to get a job working for an EC. If the job is too physical for you maybe a supply house or box store.
http://www.acinet.org/acinet/wages1...de=472111&stfips=54&x=72&y=7

2003 Electrician wage report for WV.
bottom 25% were getting $14.47
1/2 were making $18.90
the upper 75% got $22.22 an hour

You may be in a depressed town. But somewhere in your state you can make a living.

I seen people like you come for a job in the past. Had trade schooling and 10 or more years exp. But because they did not believe they were worth much they asked too little. They got a job right away but were making less then a 2 year guy.

Some job seeking tips:
-Be clean cut (shower, shave, hair cut)
-Wear nice clothes (a bit better than what you would wear to work)
-Don't chew or smoke
-Be confident
-Don't tell them you never made more then $xx
-Be firm on a starting wage you are worth (shoot for at least the what 1/2 the other sparks are making)
-Be flexable and not demanding (you will work any day, any time, any where
-Don't argue
-Call EC out of the phone book, a lot of places want a person but don't have an ad (once there is an job ad you have a lot of competition)
-Don't be negitive about anything
-Don't curse
-Be energetic, motivated, & positive

Once you get the job keep doing the above.

Now I'm not looking to cause a problem here,
BUT,
I'm not one to kick a nice guy while he is down.
Virgil is the sort of guy that will always hop in and give his advice on different matters and he has done in the past.
He is one of the original Members here at ECN.
Let's just give something back, could we?, to help one of our's out?.
And before you start bagging me, just think about this for a second, how would you like to be in his shoes?.
Be in the Chat room tomorrow!.

Hi,
I see a problem with your invoice...

Why would you give the cost of parts to the customer?

It seems that you are setting yourself up for the old "i can buy that for $2 at Lowes" response...

You are losing money by charging by the hour!

Flat rate variable billing is the ONLY way to go in this day and age.

-regards

Greg

Mike,

Alas, I feel it is an exercise in futility, for I have lost my enthusiasm.

I need to embrace failure like an old friend,
and admit it is over.

Tools for sale...

Mustang, you're correct. I simply need to scribble an arbitrary figure on a napkin. To hell with the knowledge of where their money goes. Imagine what I'd save on ink cartridges alone!

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 03-16-2005).]

maintanceguy...great breakdown on the cost of doing business.It is very helpfull to me, as I am currently trying to redo my price per manhour due to overhead increases.

shortcircuit

Sparky66 sorry if I was to harsh. You do seem to know what your doing. You have a nice web site. So stand up and go back out there.

Try stoping by all the local GC and remodelers. Maybe some business or small factories too. Give them a hello, and your card. If you pick up a job get some up front $.

Best of luck,

Tom

hi,
if you need work..try this..

WORK SAFELY! you aint worth nothing hurt or dead! take two and think it through!

PLAN YOUR WORK! you will waste a lot of time running back and forth if you dont have everything you need and have the work planned..in electrical work planning is a major part of the job!

NETWORK! get out there and talk to people..keep your ear to the ground..talk it up! dont be bashful!

BE PROMPT AND ON TIME..IF YOU CANT MAKE IT...CALL!

DONT DISREGARD THE SMALL JOB/CALL..THEY SOMETIMES TURN INTO BIG JOBS OR REFERRALS!

BE A SALESMAN..BE SUGGESTIVE! do not be too pushy or too desperate! but sell your products.

Try to find what you are good at and be better than everybody else! FIND YOUR NICHE MARKET!

Branch out into new markets...low voltage, communications, distributed energy, solar, backup power, lighting, enmergency lighting...whatever!

DO NOT LET EMOTIONS PLAY A ROLE IN YOUR WORK..

DONT TAKE SHORTCUTS AND DO QUALITY WORK THAT MEETS THE CODE! The successful contractor is a person who knows the code and how it pertains to the work he is doing..you can do work cheaper if you know the code..if you dont you will do a lot of unecessary or substandard work..AVOID THAT PITFALL..

Get paid for ALL the work you do..all those itemized list and number you have put together..i hope you are getting paid for that or do you just have a lot of free time?

DONT USE CHEAP MATERIAL TO TRY AND SAVE A BUCK...USE QUALITY MATERIALS...most people like that...nobody wants to find out that you used the cheapest parts..besides they will cost you in call backs etc..ALWAYS buy a few more parts than you need for a job..this will give you some extra parts you can use later...if i need two 2 gang boxes for a job i will buy three..that will leave me one extra that i will use on the next job..what do you do with extra material? throw it away? no use if it is NEW.

USE QUALITY TOOLS!

GET A SIGNED CONTRACT FOR ANYTHING OVER $500 and get a DEPOSIT..I get 40% or I dont do the job unless they are repeat customers..then I still get a signed contract and 25% deposit...sometimes if it is a short job get 1/2 at the start and 1/2 at the end..otherwise go 40 to start-30 at rough-in-30 on completion..NOT INSPECTION....NEVER DO ANY JOB WITHOUT A SIGNED CONTRACT AND A DEPOSIT..YOU WILL REGRET IT. show up in court without a signed contract and the judge will tell you that any REAL businessman gets it in writing..without it you might get a settlement...with it he will rule in your favor

Watch out for GC's that you dont know..if you get a call from a gc saying he is looking for a new electrician..watch out! dont fall for that "I am a GC so you have to do things my way"..they are out to screw you! GET IT IN WRITING!

YOUR BILLING RATE IS ONLY 1/3 of what is should be...dont tell anyone what that is!

stop wasting time with all of those numbers...i can send you an excel sheet that works as an invoice and a bill...just sell your work.

I could have gotten triple what you cahrged for those jobs..you may get a lot of sub work that way!

clean yourself up and be confident...that is worth money to some folks they want a confident guy not some smuck! comb your nappy head..put on some smelly stuff!

try to get your name on your truck and have a name that people will remember and like..one that is catchy! Discount Electric..ASAP electric...use your own name if you want but look the part...those fancy vans with all the graphics on them dont show up at your place for $25 an hour! that wont cover coffee!

never show any material prices on any invoice or bill...that is none of their business..second never quote by the hour or set prices...go look at every job and bid what you think it will cost you in time and labor then add some profit..you are in business to make money!

CHARGE WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR! THIS IS AMERICA! if you can get $3000 for a 200A service more power to you!
sell the job for as much as you can...never take a job just to get the work...you will lose and be frustrated...if you dont get what you want move on you dont need that kind of customer..always finish the work as quick as possible and smooze the client...

never bill the same price for the same job...always increase the next same job a few dollars..sell a 200 amp service for as much as you can i get $1800 where i am.

put an ad in the local "Service directory" of the newspaper...list your price for wiring a house per sqf...start at about $2 per sqf..get a signed agreement and a few bucks in mobilization and commitment in the form of a PAYMENT that way when it all falls apart you have at least a few bucks..set a fee for a trip charge ...i get $45 just to show up...if they balk at that dont worry you dont need that customer..

then once you get the job..you can up that sqf price by making sure that that is MINIMUM required by nec...anything and everything after that is extra..

i have done this myself and have seen some jobs go up to $20K by the time it was all said and done..

another thing you can do is use a toll free number in a statewide paper...that will get some calls from outside your area..

just watch out because you will get a lot of calls from people looking for work and sales..

try to sell yourself as a contractor for hire to commercial or industrial clients..most places could use a contract electrician..try $35 to $45 an hour...

if you want to come to alaska and work i can get you on a 2 week on two week of schedule or a 4 and 1...that a couple thousand a week...room and board paid..its is just cold as hell!..you would need to get a license here unless you have one already...they reciprocate with a few places..and will look at anybody who took a test. (experiror or other)

Job Vacancy Announcement
Company Name:
No: Proj No:

Recruitment Opening Date:
03/15/2005 Recruitment Closing Date:
03/29/2005 Approx. Job Start Date:
03/30/2005 Job Location:
Other AK

Job Title: Electrical Superintendent Salary/Wage Rate: DOE

No. Positions Required: 1 No. People Required: 1 Rotation: None

Approx. Job Duration: 2-6 months Employment Status: F\T-Temporary

General Duties: Positions reports to Manager or as directed. Employee will be responsible for all phases of project management including quality control, hiring, safety, materials, subcontractors, scheduling, estimating and cost accounting. Position will be responsible to process project scope changes between engineering, construction management, subcontractors and client. Position is responsible for project final construction inspection, turnover package preparation and submission. Position will interface with local labor union to ensure ongoing relationships. ---we need a lot of electricians and E/I techs up here...steak on wed and prime rib on sundays!

hope that helps..thats about all the advice i could think of at the moment..maybe it isnt worth anything but if it helps great!

good luck brother..

sorry if i mispelled anything everybody!

ok i will shut up now!

-regards

greg



[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 03-16-2005).]