ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades Least No. of Socket-Outlets?

djk,
With respect to exterior socket-outlets,
does the IP55 type have a hood over the actual socket?.
I like the sound of your(Irish) Regs, our's used to be like that, with guidelines and all, now we just get told what we're NOT allowed to do and the resulting penalties, if we do!.

yeah IP55 BS1363 sockets are "weatherproof" they've a waterproof cover over the socket it usually closes tightly over the plug when in use too.

Most of these outlets on the market here have their own RCD built in.

However, since the regulations and guidelines only recomend the use of the "industrial" type socket for outdoor stuff any electrical contractor installing the BS1363 variety is open to massive law suit if someone gets shocked by one.

From the ECTI :

Q: Are there special plugs and sockets for outdoor installations and if so why?
A: Yes. We like most mainland Europe countries do not consider indoor plugs to be suitable for outdoor installations subject to weather and rough handling and so ordinary 13A sockets to I.S. 401 are not suitable for outdoor use. Like all socket outlets up to 32A, they should be protected by an RCD. The Rules require that outdoor sockets and industrial sockets comply with IS/EN60309 standard. In this system both the plug and socket are hard wearing and are deemed to be suitable for outdoor use. The single phase plug is coloured blue and the socket is inclined towards the ground to prevent the ingress of moisture. They may be more cumbersome than the flat pin plug system but they are safer.

On the location of switches:
for ease of access the following building regulations now apply in Ireland enforced by the department of the Environment, they're not wiring regulations they're only concerned with accessability from a wheelchair etc.
There are also minimum heights for sockets.. Skirting sockets have been pretty much banned since the 1960s, many old skirting schuko sockets were retrofitted with bulkier surface mounted BS1363 equivilants during the 50s/60s usually mounted upsidedown / sideways to allow cable access.

From the ETCI (ElectroTechnical Council of Ireland)

: Why are the heights of wall switches for lights, lower than
before. Is this not more dangerous as children can now operate them?
A: The Department of Environment has directed that lighting wall switches should not be higher than 1200mm or lower than 900mm. This is to allow easier access for handicapped people.



It will of course be easier for children to operate them but if properly installed
there should be no great danger. After all sockets and table lamps are
frequently below this height.

on another point:

I was talking to an old electrician about the change to BS1363 here and he gave me the following explanation:

Schuko was used mostly pre WWII because of the Siemens/AEG influence. British Round Pin systems (BS546) were also in fairly widespread use during the 40s and early 50s.

The athorities at the time came to the conclusion that they needed to standardise but didn't like schuko as a long term option due to the lack of polarisation and the fact that people treated ground connections as semi-optional (rewirable non-grounded plugs were available easily).

The BS546 installations generally were almost exclusively the huge 15 amp versions and were considered way too bulky not exactly ideal. Many small appliences like radios were connected via bayonett style plugs to light fittings!!

So in the 1950s BS1363 was emerging as the "norm" in the UK it was a much better standard and more importantly it was fully incompatable with both schuko and BS546 and thus forced a "clean" migration to a safer system. It also accelerated the removal of older systems which could then be easily identified. If a socket was "2-pin" or "round pin" people knew they should rewire. In the rest of Europe 1930s wiring would still probabally accept a modern CEE 7/7 plug.

Ireland in the 1950s also had very little contact with the rest of Europe on any kind of scale so it was of little or no consequence if a French tourist couldn't plug in her hairdryer. It was much more important that things were compatable with Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

(220V @ 50hz was decided upon as the standard here as far back as 1925, DC systems which exsisted in some parts of the cities were gone by 1926! I think the UK's 240V standard came a lot later but for most appliences it made little/no difference.)


They didn't like the UK fusing system however and stuck with Diazed and later neozed systems that had been the norm since pre WWII. The UK wiring colour codes were also used as they were simple to follow and cables were easily available.

RCDs came into force in 1980 although ELCBs and RCDs were present on older installations already even before they were regulated for.

Re outdoor outlets, the weatherproofed BS1363 style are becoming more common in Britain as people want to use more in the way of garden tools etc.

One problem I've had to explain more than once is that some types are weatherproof only when not in use. They are not IP55-rated when the cover is open and a plug inserted. It can be difficult to get across the point that these types shouldn't be left with equipment plugged in unattended in all weathers (e.g. an ornamental fountain pump).


It did indeed. The conversion of the whole network to the standard 240V wasn't completed until the early 1970s, so for many years people had to cope with various nominals voltages such as 220/380, 230/400, 240/415 and 250/433V. Equipment which was more sensitive to the variations, such as TVs, was fitted with adjustable voltage taps until about 30 years ago.

As for DC, quite a lot of the old 3-wire DC distribution networks in British towns survived well into the 1950s.

I have to agree with the Irish decision to not adopt the British style rewireable fuses which were in widespread use. Those things really kept British overcurrent protection in a relatively primitive state of affairs for far too long.

We've an old British Radiogram from the 1930s that's switchable from 200 - 250V. The switch is locked at 220V by the retailer!

Who decided on 220V / 380V 50hz? Seems to have been the most widespread system in use and why did the UK pick 240V and not say 230V/400V to make things more compatable with the rest of Europe?

In a country as wet as Ireland or the UK I really think the use of normal BS1363 plugs and sockets for garden work is potentially leathal. They are VERY liable to get wet, particularly the rewirable variety. I know a few people who've been shocked quite badly while unplugging a wet BS1363 rewirable plug. (I'm sure schuko and other systems are just as dangerous but most other countries arn't as wet as here! and most other European countries, speaking from experience, arn't as garden obcessed either)

Would it be THAT big of a deal to provide a few IS/EN60309 sockets on the outside of a house and use EN60309 trailing sockets and reels for garden work. they're not THAT bulky and they'd survive a lot more abuse than a normal plug.

If you must bring say sound equipment or lamps out on a very dry day for a party you can always use an adaptor.

You do see them in use for Xmas decorations, particularly in commerical premisis, but occasionally in homes too. Also for things like those little "kiddy rides" and photobooths outside the doors of shopping centres.

Re: pond pumps .. are they usually 230V? Only ones i've come across have been 12 or 24V with the transformer located inside.

I notice all the outdoor lighting cable here is shielded i.e. 2 cores (blue and brown) and its sorrounded by a ground conductor a bit like coax!. Pretty bulky stuff although i guess it makes it a BIT safer if someone cuts it with a shovel or something

djk

Yes, and the old style sockets are still sold. In Norway, the ungrounded sockets look just like they did "back then". Without the childproof shutters and collar to prevent fingers from touching live pins.





[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 04-08-2003).]

Interesting. I've never seen such a cord.

The street lighting outside this building has a version of this: Shielded underground cable (solid core) has been used as a flex cord running on the ground between the poles. I suppose they did the wiring in winter and it was too difficult to dig.

djk,
what you are describing, sounds a lot like
2core Neutral-screened, but with the screen used as an Earth conductor.
Over here, any socket-outlets used outdoors
must have the same IP rating regardless of whether they are in use or not.
A common rating is IP66, and the plug has a screw-type locking/sealing ring as well as a spring-loaded rubber sealed flap and locking catch.
Apparently, these plug/socket arrangements, can handle a 3Mega Pascal jet of water, with no leakage.