ECN Forum
Posted By: Trumpy Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 03/29/03 10:20 PM
Hi guys,
Just wondering, in your country, is there a required minimum number of socket outlets, to be installed in a house?
Just quoted for a job, way out in the Country, to rewire a house, that has 4 single s/outlets and two of them were on the sides of the range!. [Linked Image]
You should have seen all the extension cords. [Linked Image]
Posted By: David UK Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 03/30/03 12:02 PM
Hi Trumpy,
Here in Scotland, Building Standards (Scotland) Regulations 1990, have statutory requirements for the minimum number of socket outlets to be provided in each dwelling.

Minimum requirements are:
Kitchen: 6 socket outlets (i.e. 3 twin skts.)
Each apartment *: 4 socket outlets.
Plus 4 additional socket outlets elsewhere.

* The term apartment here refers to an occupied room e.g. bedroom, lounge.

These are absolute minimum requirements, which are clearly inadequate for the average modern house, which will usually have more outlets.

In new housing, the Local Authority Building Control Dept. would insist on the minimum socket provision before issuing a Completion Certificate.
Where the Local Authority give Home Improvement Grants to home owners, in respect of sub standard electrical installations, these minimum requirements are also enforced.
When I carry out rewirng of older properties, I always insist at least minimum numbers are installed, regardless of whether a Grant is involved.

What, if any are the minimum requirements in NZ?

Are there any minimum requirements in European countries? I've noticed, when on holiday that there seem to be fewer sockets than in UK, & mostly singles.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 03/30/03 01:19 PM
Further south here in England, there are recommended minimums by various house-building associations, but there are no legally enforceable minimums. The IEE Wiring Regs. have always specified how wiring must be installed, but have never specified what outlets, lights etc. must be provided (and I'm sure everyone's gotten the message that the Regs. aren't legally enforceable in residential anyway [Linked Image]).

In view of my thread about the proposed new building regulations containing reference to electrical installations for the first time, it would be interesting to know if there are any plans in the pipeline to add minimum requirements. I couldn't see any in the govt. document, although I only had time to scan through it rather quickly.

Trumpy,
You may already be aware that the NEC in America does specify certain minimums. I'll see if I can post the relevant extracts for you.

[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 03-30-2003).]
Posted By: pauluk Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 03/30/03 01:55 PM
From the 2002 National Electrical Code:
Quote
210.50 General. Receptacle outlets shall be installed as specified in 210.52 through 210.63.

{.....}

(C) Appliance outlets. Appliance receptacle outlets installed in a dwelling unit for specific appliances, such as laundry equipment, shall be installed within 1.8m (6 ft) of the intended location of the appliance.

210.52 Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets. {.....} Receptacle outlets required by this section shall be in addition to any receptacle that is part of a luminaire (lighting fixture) or appliance, located within cabinets or cupboards, or located more than 1.7m (5-1/2 ft) above the floor.

{.....}

(A) General Provisions. In every kitchen, family room, dining room, living room, parlor, library, den, sunroom, bedroom, recreation room, or similar room or area of dwelling units, receptacle outlets shall be installed in accordance with the general provisions specified in 210.52(A)(1) through (A)(3).

(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.

(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:

(1) Any space 600mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings.

{.....}

(3) Floor Receptacles. Receptacle outlets in floors shall not be counted as part of the required number of receptacle outlets unless located within 450mm (18 in.) of the wall.

{.....}

(C) Countertops. In kitchens and dining rooms of dwelling units, receptacle outlets for counter spaces shall be installed in accordance with 210.52(C)(1) through (5).

(1) Wall Counter Spaces. A receptacle outlet shall be installed at each wall counter space that is 300mm (12 in.) or wider. Receptacle outlets shall be installed so that no point along the wall line is more than 600mm (24 in.) measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space.

{.....}

(D) Bathrooms. In dwelling units, at least one wall receptacle outlet shall be installed in bathrooms within 900mm (3 ft) of the outside edge of each basin. The rece[tacle outlet shall be located on a wall or partition that is adjacent to the basin or basin countertop.

(E) Outdoor Outlets. For a one-family dwelling and each unit of a two-family dwelling that is at grade level, at least one receptacle outlet accessible at grade level and not more than 2m (6-1/2 ft) above grade shall be installed at the front and back of the dwelling. {.....}

(F) Laundry Areas. In dwelling units, at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for the laundry. {.....}

(G) Basements and Garages, For a one-family dwelling, at least one receptacle outlet, in addition to any provided for laundry equipment, shall be installed in each basement and in each attached garage, and in each detached garage with electric power. {.....}

(H) Hallways. In dwelling units, hallways of 3.0m (10 ft) or more in length shall have at least one receptacle outlet. {.....}

That's a somewhat edited summary, but I think it gives a fair picture. I'm sure one of our American friends will add anything important that I've overlooked. [Linked Image]
Posted By: C-H Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 03/30/03 02:51 PM
I can't find the the Swedish requirements. It's not in the Building Regs nor in the Wiring Regs. Must be hidden away somewhere. [Linked Image]

IIRC the requirement is three sockets per room or a maximum distance to socket of 4 meters. I.e a 4 meter cord should reach a socket. Sockets are usually doubles, except those over counters or those placed at the same height as the light switch. (Combined sockets and switches are becoming increasingly common, mostly in commercial, since it makes the sockets easy to find and reach) Dedicated sockets are usually singles too.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 03/31/03 06:32 AM
David,
I must say, I don't know, we used to have a minimum number of 16 in a house under the 1976 Regs, but since then, this minimum has been brushed aside.
I'll have a look at copies of Regs over the years, it must be pretty well hidden, as I never had it catch my eye!. [Linked Image]
Posted By: pauluk Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/01/03 03:12 PM
Trumpy,
Did/do the NZ rules just specify a certain number of outlets for a room, or did they state in more detail exactly where those receptacles must be located? (Similar to the American NEC).

Placement of outlets seems to vary considerably. Kitchen counters excepted, outlets in the U.K. have tended to be mounted fairly low down and most people seem to like them that way (although there has been concern in more recent years that such placement makes it much more difficult for the elderly and disabled).

In many cases I've marked out for outlets to go about 18" above floor level and people have complained that they'll be too high and asked for them to be fitted lower.

In France, on the other hand, it seems to be quite accepted for receptacles to be located at about the same height as a light switch. (In some houses, a couple of receptacles adjacent to the light switches seems to be all that's provided.)

The worst cases of placement in England were the houses where surface-mount receptacles were simply screwed onto a fairly low baseboard. They would be easily hit by vacuum cleaners and such like, and I've seen some fitted so close to the floor that it was practically impossible to insert a plug with anything thicker than a lamp cord!


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 04-01-2003).]
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/02/03 06:23 AM
Paul,
The '76 Regs only "advised", as to how many socket-outlets should be installed, it reads
something like this:
Kitchen 6
Living Area 2
Bedrooms 2(each)
Laundry 1
Clock 1
Please bear in mind, that when these Regs were written, people didn't own Consumer Electronics, like they do now, at least where I lived they didn't!.
But, even so, it's not many is it?.
Also Paul, over here, there are no real hard and fast rules for socket-outlet placement, excepting(obviously)Bathrooms and other Damp Areas, in general, we tend to mount the sockets at 300-400mm above floor level, the exceptions to this rule, would be a Laundry or Kitchen. [Linked Image]
Posted By: djk Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/07/03 07:45 AM
In Ireland the regulations don't specify anything specific but the guidelines, which are generally followed set out:

Kitchen: 10 sockets minimum (goes on to explain that modern kitchens are full of small appliences etc and how the use of double adaptors should be strongly discouraged in such an environment)

(UK style Cooker Control/Socket unit is outlawed under irish regs. There are plenty of them installed but they are not allowed in new installations and if they need replacement they have to be replaced by a normal dual pole switch without a socket.)

Living rooms etc: 4 socket minimum, it also goes on to state that sockets should be located to suit requirements for free standing lamps, television, audio equipment etc to prevent the excessive use of "multisocket adaptors" Basically use common sense and make sure that the normal requirements are met. E.g. some people might put 2 X double plates beside the antenna socket for the TV, it's up to the home owner though.

Hallways (rule of thumb): At least 1 X double, centrally located to allow for use of vacuum cleaners etc and to remove the requirment to use extension cords. If the hallway is very large outlets should be located to allow for vacuum cleaning at points along it. Free standing lighting should also be taken into consideration.

Bedrooms: at least 2 sockets although 2 X double is the recomended minimum, 2 of which should be near the bedside area.

Laundry rooms: 1 outlet dedicated to each large applience and 2 spare.

It's not entirely uncommon to find old houses here with 1 socket in each room!

However, it's worth noting that Ireland is the most litigeous country in the world after the USA. One public housing athority was sucessfully sued and had to pay out major amounts of money for not installing sufficient sockets!

A kid was scalded by a boiling kettle when she pulled the extension cord it was plug in to. This happened in public athority house dating from the late 1800s that only had one socket in the kitchen which was not located directly beside the counter top. The court ruled that the housing athority was at fault, as the family were forced to use long dangerous extension cords and adaptors and rewarded massive dammages. This ruling would potentially apply to anyone with a duty of care.. i.e. landlords, builders, architects and electricians.
Posted By: djk Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/07/03 08:08 AM
Outdoor sockets:

One question: Irish regulations prohibit the installation of outdoor sockets that accept BS1363 (or any "domestic type plug" for that matter) the only legally acceptable type is the Industrial version. I've even seen it used for outdoor xmas lights, at least where they're installed correctly.

I've also seen plenty of IP55 BS1363 sockets on sale in hardware stores though.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/07/03 08:21 AM
djk,
With respect to exterior socket-outlets,
does the IP55 type have a hood over the actual socket?.
I like the sound of your(Irish) Regs, our's used to be like that, with guidelines and all, now we just get told what we're NOT allowed to do and the resulting penalties, if we do!. [Linked Image]
Posted By: djk Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/07/03 09:32 AM
yeah IP55 BS1363 sockets are "weatherproof" they've a waterproof cover over the socket it usually closes tightly over the plug when in use too.

Most of these outlets on the market here have their own RCD built in.

However, since the regulations and guidelines only recomend the use of the "industrial" type socket for outdoor stuff any electrical contractor installing the BS1363 variety is open to massive law suit if someone gets shocked by one.

From the ECTI :

Q: Are there special plugs and sockets for outdoor installations and if so why?
A: Yes. We like most mainland Europe countries do not consider indoor plugs to be suitable for outdoor installations subject to weather and rough handling and so ordinary 13A sockets to I.S. 401 are not suitable for outdoor use. Like all socket outlets up to 32A, they should be protected by an RCD. The Rules require that outdoor sockets and industrial sockets comply with IS/EN60309 standard. In this system both the plug and socket are hard wearing and are deemed to be suitable for outdoor use. The single phase plug is coloured blue and the socket is inclined towards the ground to prevent the ingress of moisture. They may be more cumbersome than the flat pin plug system but they are safer.
Posted By: djk Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/07/03 10:04 AM
On the location of switches:
for ease of access the following building regulations now apply in Ireland enforced by the department of the Environment, they're not wiring regulations they're only concerned with accessability from a wheelchair etc.
There are also minimum heights for sockets.. Skirting sockets have been pretty much banned since the 1960s, many old skirting schuko sockets were retrofitted with bulkier surface mounted BS1363 equivilants during the 50s/60s usually mounted upsidedown / sideways to allow cable access.

From the ETCI (ElectroTechnical Council of Ireland)

: Why are the heights of wall switches for lights, lower than
before. Is this not more dangerous as children can now operate them?
A: The Department of Environment has directed that lighting wall switches should not be higher than 1200mm or lower than 900mm. This is to allow easier access for handicapped people.



It will of course be easier for children to operate them but if properly installed
there should be no great danger. After all sockets and table lamps are
frequently below this height.

on another point:

I was talking to an old electrician about the change to BS1363 here and he gave me the following explanation:

Schuko was used mostly pre WWII because of the Siemens/AEG influence. British Round Pin systems (BS546) were also in fairly widespread use during the 40s and early 50s.

The athorities at the time came to the conclusion that they needed to standardise but didn't like schuko as a long term option due to the lack of polarisation and the fact that people treated ground connections as semi-optional (rewirable non-grounded plugs were available easily).

The BS546 installations generally were almost exclusively the huge 15 amp versions and were considered way too bulky not exactly ideal. Many small appliences like radios were connected via bayonett style plugs to light fittings!!

So in the 1950s BS1363 was emerging as the "norm" in the UK it was a much better standard and more importantly it was fully incompatable with both schuko and BS546 and thus forced a "clean" migration to a safer system. It also accelerated the removal of older systems which could then be easily identified. If a socket was "2-pin" or "round pin" people knew they should rewire. In the rest of Europe 1930s wiring would still probabally accept a modern CEE 7/7 plug.

Ireland in the 1950s also had very little contact with the rest of Europe on any kind of scale so it was of little or no consequence if a French tourist couldn't plug in her hairdryer. It was much more important that things were compatable with Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

(220V @ 50hz was decided upon as the standard here as far back as 1925, DC systems which exsisted in some parts of the cities were gone by 1926! I think the UK's 240V standard came a lot later but for most appliences it made little/no difference.)


They didn't like the UK fusing system however and stuck with Diazed and later neozed systems that had been the norm since pre WWII. The UK wiring colour codes were also used as they were simple to follow and cables were easily available.

RCDs came into force in 1980 although ELCBs and RCDs were present on older installations already even before they were regulated for.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/07/03 09:44 PM
Re outdoor outlets, the weatherproofed BS1363 style are becoming more common in Britain as people want to use more in the way of garden tools etc.

One problem I've had to explain more than once is that some types are weatherproof only when not in use. They are not IP55-rated when the cover is open and a plug inserted. It can be difficult to get across the point that these types shouldn't be left with equipment plugged in unattended in all weathers (e.g. an ornamental fountain pump).

Quote
(220V @ 50hz was decided upon as the standard here as far back as 1925, DC systems which exsisted in some parts of the cities were gone by 1926! I think the UK's 240V standard came a lot later

It did indeed. The conversion of the whole network to the standard 240V wasn't completed until the early 1970s, so for many years people had to cope with various nominals voltages such as 220/380, 230/400, 240/415 and 250/433V. Equipment which was more sensitive to the variations, such as TVs, was fitted with adjustable voltage taps until about 30 years ago.

As for DC, quite a lot of the old 3-wire DC distribution networks in British towns survived well into the 1950s.

I have to agree with the Irish decision to not adopt the British style rewireable fuses which were in widespread use. Those things really kept British overcurrent protection in a relatively primitive state of affairs for far too long.
Posted By: djk Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/08/03 09:44 AM
We've an old British Radiogram from the 1930s that's switchable from 200 - 250V. The switch is locked at 220V by the retailer!

Who decided on 220V / 380V 50hz? Seems to have been the most widespread system in use and why did the UK pick 240V and not say 230V/400V to make things more compatable with the rest of Europe?
Posted By: djk Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/08/03 09:52 AM
In a country as wet as Ireland or the UK I really think the use of normal BS1363 plugs and sockets for garden work is potentially leathal. They are VERY liable to get wet, particularly the rewirable variety. I know a few people who've been shocked quite badly while unplugging a wet BS1363 rewirable plug. (I'm sure schuko and other systems are just as dangerous but most other countries arn't as wet as here! and most other European countries, speaking from experience, arn't as garden obcessed either)

Would it be THAT big of a deal to provide a few IS/EN60309 sockets on the outside of a house and use EN60309 trailing sockets and reels for garden work. they're not THAT bulky and they'd survive a lot more abuse than a normal plug.

If you must bring say sound equipment or lamps out on a very dry day for a party you can always use an adaptor.
Posted By: djk Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/08/03 09:57 AM
You do see them in use for Xmas decorations, particularly in commerical premisis, but occasionally in homes too. Also for things like those little "kiddy rides" and photobooths outside the doors of shopping centres.

Re: pond pumps .. are they usually 230V? Only ones i've come across have been 12 or 24V with the transformer located inside.

I notice all the outdoor lighting cable here is shielded i.e. 2 cores (blue and brown) and its sorrounded by a ground conductor a bit like coax!. Pretty bulky stuff although i guess it makes it a BIT safer if someone cuts it with a shovel or something
Posted By: C-H Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/08/03 04:08 PM
djk
Quote

In the rest of Europe 1930s wiring would still probabally accept a modern CEE 7/7 plug.

Yes, and the old style sockets are still sold. In Norway, the ungrounded sockets look just like they did "back then". Without the childproof shutters and collar to prevent fingers from touching live pins.

[Linked Image from i.kth.se]



[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 04-08-2003).]
Posted By: C-H Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/08/03 04:27 PM
Quote

I notice all the outdoor lighting cable here is shielded i.e. 2 cores (blue and brown) and its sorrounded by a ground conductor a bit like coax!. Pretty bulky stuff although i guess it makes it a BIT safer if someone cuts it with a shovel or something

Interesting. I've never seen such a cord.

The street lighting outside this building has a version of this: Shielded underground cable (solid core) has been used as a flex cord running on the ground between the poles. I suppose they did the wiring in winter and it was too difficult to dig.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/09/03 05:08 AM
djk,
what you are describing, sounds a lot like
2core Neutral-screened, but with the screen used as an Earth conductor.
Over here, any socket-outlets used outdoors
must have the same IP rating regardless of whether they are in use or not.
A common rating is IP66, and the plug has a screw-type locking/sealing ring as well as a spring-loaded rubber sealed flap and locking catch.
Apparently, these plug/socket arrangements, can handle a 3Mega Pascal jet of water, with no leakage. [Linked Image]
Posted By: pauluk Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/09/03 05:57 PM
Quote
Re: pond pumps .. are they usually 230V? Only ones i've come across have been 12 or 24V with the transformer located inside.
There are plenty of low-voltage types available here too, but also many 230V submersible versions.

Outdoor outlets with the locking/sealing ring were also once common in Britain, and are still available. I think I have an old BS546 type kicking around somewhere. I'll post a photo later.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/09/03 06:40 PM
Here it is -- BS546 5A type:
[Linked Image from members.aol.com]
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/09/03 08:05 PM
Paul,
Regarding that weatherproof socket-outlet,
are you required to have an isolator on that, as well?.
What is the IP rating of that plug/socket arrangement?.
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/09/03 08:30 PM
Hi Paul,

Here is a picture of a 13 AMP BS-1363 weatherproof plug and socket by Lewden. Are these things still legal to install?

They also still make the 5, 15 and even a 30 amp(!!) configuration - with four round pins, I believe. They're all on TLC-Direct's website.

*PIX stolen from TLC-Direct*

socket:
[Linked Image from tlc-direct.co.uk]

plug:
[Linked Image from tlc-direct.co.uk]

Here are Clipsal's knockoffs:

plug:
[Linked Image from tlc-direct.co.uk]

socket:
[Linked Image from tlc-direct.co.uk]

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 04-09-2003).]

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 04-09-2003).]
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/10/03 09:01 AM
The only straight BS plug I've ever seen!
Hereoutdoor receptacles are usually IP 54 IIRC. They have a spring loaded lid that forms a "roof" over the plug when in use. I think they are not rated for permanent use. Personally I'droute such cords inside through a piece of conduit. All circuits have to be RCD-protected at the panel,so it doesn't matter whether indoor or outdoor receptacle. If possible outdoor receptacles are located on balconies,porches etc.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Least No. of Socket-Outlets? - 04/11/03 09:52 AM
They're IP66 rated, and no isolator is required. The Lewden types pictured are still quite acceptable, although generally only for commercial environments as the BS546 types have no shutters, and of course protection against the elements when a plug is removed depends upon somebody screwing the cap back on.
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