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Joined: Feb 2004
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Wouldn't the spa also meet the definition of "appliance"?
Randy
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Randy, I agree with you.
The "Hot Tub/Spa" is an "appliance" or mabey a "fixture", definately not a structure.
The Gazebo is a "structure" but it is not a "perminant structure" and will once again fall under the term Fixture.
Rob
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Appliance. Utilization equipment, generally other than industrial, that is normally built in standardized sizes or types and is installed or connected as a unit to perform one or more functions such as clothes washing, air conditioning, food mixing, deep frying, and so forth. Equipment. A general term including material, fittings, devices, appliances, luminaires (fixtures), apparatus, and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation. I think "equipment". But Reno mentioned in the chat area that this thing had a load center in it. Which complicates things.... Branch Circuit. The circuit conductors between the final overcurrent device protecting the circuit and the outlet(s).
and
Branch Circuit, Individual. A branch circuit that supplies only one utilization equipment. So if the final over-current device is inside the unit, doesn't that make it a "feeder"? Feeder. All circuit conductors between the service equipment, the source of a separately derived system, or other power supply source and the final branch-circuit overcurrent device. Which would make it exempt from the exception to 250.32(A)? And then either require a GEC and local electrode, or full size EGC depending on other metalic paths?
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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Lets get real fuzzy...if E57 is correct and this tub is fed with a "feeder" because the last overcurrent device at the tub (which I disagree with, I think it would be a non-fused disconnect and not an overcurrent device), then all "equipment" that is fed downstream from a "fused disconnect" (or overcurrent device)such as heat pumps or air conditioning compressors which sit outside of the building would be fed from "feeders" and require a GEC? This is getting real fuzzy!
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Joined: May 2005
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if E57 is correct and this tub is fed with a "feeder" because the last overcurrent device at the tub (which I disagree with, I think it would be a non-fused disconnect and not an overcurrent device) E57 is talking about the fact that there is a load center (circuit breakers) built-in to the hot tub control panel, not the disconnect switch that supplies the tub. My feeling is, that the unit, being listed as an assembly, probably qualifies as an appliance or fixture.. The next question is, how does the UL tag identify it? Also, does the load center supply additional equipment that is not either part of the tub assembly, or connected to a convienience outlet located on the tub assembly?
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Joined: Dec 2004
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It's a hot tub, that's all it is.
The question was I think, would you put a ground rod by it?
Who has put a ground rod by a hot tub?
And what purpose would it serve, none.
Dnk....
[This message has been edited by Dnkldorf (edited 10-29-2005).]
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I belive the first question was about the Gazebo. The hot tub is a seprate "Thingy" from the "Cover Thingy".
Thingy's sre not coverd in the NEC so forget about it!
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If a circuit breaker causes a branch circuit to become a feeder, does the power strip under my desk now have a "feeder" instead of a power cord? ![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/biggrin.gif)
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I think I need a Gnd rod at my UPS too. It has multiple ckt breakers.
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Joined: May 2003
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Randy, the definitions only apply to premisis wiring, the plug strip under your desk (Or sierra's plug in UPS) doesn't count....
Back to this... 680.2 definitions "Packaged Spa or Hot Tub Equipment Assembly" or "Self-Contained Spa or Hot Tub" Just about every item in this area reffers to "Equipment".
I don't see anything in 680 that would exempt the FEED for it from being called a "feeder" just because the panel for all the branch circuits inside is part of a "listed assembely". (Or, I guess the tub is NOT part of premisis wiring?)
[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 10-29-2005).]
[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 10-29-2005).]
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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