Flatrating seems to be the way to goto make the money.
Somehow it seems that the guy selling the job is getting cut short every time the selling price goes up.
The minutes adjusted,yeah sure but it means nothing else but selling at a higher price.
For the employer it always works out,the technician is the one paying for it.
The money per job goes up and the billable minutes per job are going down,because compensating it by selling more or the same at a higher price is only possible to a certain extend.
There is a limit for all that,called people are not stupid.So in the end you are selling the same service for the same $$$
but as the selling technician you will end up with a smaller incentive.Been there ,done that, got the t shirt.
What do you think?

First let me say welcome to the forum.

Second, your ramblings make very little sense. It sounds like you have a problem with your employer. You should probably address these issuses with him/her and maybe they can explain why they changed whatever they changed that you don't like.

It WOULD be SO much easier to sell those jobs if they were cheaper. I'll bet you could sell 20 jobs a day at an average of $25. That's $500 a day times 250 working days per year and you'll have $125,000.00 per year with a 2 week vacation. Forget the employer incentives, get out on your own & give it a shot, teraohm1.

thnx for the welcome, sure not rambling.
just pointing out facts.Sure not doing $25 jobs either.
seems some sensitive area there and usually when people react that sensitive it means
hit the nail on the head
The employer is me just for the records.

"Been there ,done that, got the t shirt"


[This message has been edited by teraohm1 (edited 09-26-2005).]

[This message has been edited by teraohm1 (edited 09-26-2005).]

OK teraohm1, maybe if you filled out your profile, or introduced yourself, and told us all what kind of company you're running, your post would be easier to follow. Your first post sounds a lot like a tech complaining about his job.

Dave

dave
i think all of you missing the point here
I have worked as an employee for several years and have experienced both sides of flatrating,the good and the bad .If you read my post you will see that it opens with...flatrating is the way to go to make money and thats true.
To answer your question I am in Venice/Fl
and my company is doing great.Better than ever.
As for the $ 25 jobs comment,I thought you were able to calculate a breakpoint.Dave,honest, if you do add it up like this you will not get far.So how are you doing Dave? 125000$ a year?


[This message has been edited by teraohm1 (edited 09-27-2005).]

Grrrr said the tiger

teraohm1,

I'm thinking Grrrr too. Please lighten up, I thought your post was confusing myself. It sure sounded like a disgruntled employee point of view to me too. Now that you've explained things somewhat maybe things can progress from there.

Bill

I'm all for being helpful. Maybe you'd be kind enough to restate your question with clarity.

Dave

If we're going to be civil here, I'd like to take the opportunity to get a small sampling of the "flatrate" price schedule.
For example, what would be the cost of replacing a 20' section of deteriorated SE cable from the taps to the meter?
How about the installation of a ceiling fan with full attic access and fishing a switch leg to the existing box that has adequate volume?

Any information on flat rate pricing would be as useless as "what is your hourly rate?". It will vary with anyones business and location with their costs per hour plus profit.

Dave

Tiger,
I'm not so sure.
The way I understand it, there are published flatrate quotebooks that take into account a variety of installation scenarios.
That is why I tried to be specific in my request for quotes.

hmmm ok. peace with all of you )
maybe i need to clear up things a little.And maybe i should have described the point more detailed.
Let's find a common denominator here.
the selling price is calculated by the break even per bible hr including all the expenses necessary to be paid to get the job done.
do we agree so far?
and of course a calculated profit.
To make it short .It includes all expenses-whatever they are and the profit.Which seems to be legitimate to me.


[This message has been edited by teraohm1 (edited 09-27-2005).]

"For example, what would be the cost of replacing a 20' section of deteriorated SE cable from the taps to the meter? "
_____________________________________________

If i find deteriorated SE cable, i charge almost as much as a service up grade, as soon as i remove the meter, i need an inspection, and i also have to bring up all the grounding, most of the time i find the meter is in an old socket with lugs ready to fall apart,now we need a meter pan, after years of hearing a customer say i just need a new piece of cable, i am still able to get a good laugh, what is not funny is the EC that will replace this piece of cable, and leave the rest a mess.

Guys,
Around here(PA), for various reasons (particularly real-estate re-rentals, some people call this CCO for "continued certificate of occupancy"), service cables are replaced at a township U&O inspectors request and the rest of the service is left alone.

BTW,
I remember the first time I tried it many years ago and could not even get the rusted SE connector apart.

My point is, I have heard some stories about the going rate for this particular job and I am curious as to whether or not it is true.
I understand that the flat rate price schedule is supposed to include almost any service call scenario.

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 09-27-2005).]

I have heard about guy's who change out a 100 amp service on a single story overhead charging flat rate $3,000. At those prices, I bet they break even. The thing is, I wonder if "Joe Homeowner" is going to ever call again, once he finds out the people next door paid $1,600 for the same thing.

mike
i am sure you do agree that we need to compare apples to apples.

OK, I'll admit it...

I think charging $585.00 to replace 3 receptacles with GFCIs is outrageous.
Last year, an elderly man approached me in the supply house and asked me about the job because he thought $585.00 was too high. When he declined, he was charged $40.00 for the estimate.
I understand we live in a capitalist society, but really, it just seems awful expensive to me.

well i don t have a problem with it,because them flatraters really do operate at the top level.
i think even for a flatrater $585 for 3 gfi is high,still depending what hrl rate they are operating at.
Due to that flatrate always assumes worst case scenario there a \re situations where it just doesn t work out that great,especially when it comes to smaller jobs,because the overhead for 3 gfi is very close to the one for a $ 5000 200A service.
and all that is ok i think.
Flatrating sure requires ethical standards and taking over older people is a fact not for flatrating but for every part of industry in the country.I mean i can take over every old person flatrate or T&M.The point is you just don t take over old people.

I think we might be making this subject harder than it is.

You have to make the customer happy- that's all there is to it! As anyone who's been to aa auto shop knows, the way the bill is presented can turn a happy experience into a fit of paranoia, with everyone left miserable!

You look over a job, checking for differing complications. The you give the customer a price, which he accepts or declines...that's 'flat rate', as I see it.
Sure, there are "cheat sheets" that cover the most common jobs...but in the end, the result is the same. The customer is simply tols "I will do this for $XXX."

Contrast this to the "time and materials" method. The customer agrees to the job, without having any idea what his cost will be.
He gets your bill. The first thing is that he sees a charge for time over and above the time you were actually there. Parts run? Prep work in the shop? Padding the bill? He has no way of knowing.
He looks at the "materials" portion. %4 for a box he see at Home Depot for $.83. What's with that? And why did you get the $12 GFI instead of the $8 one?

Lets face it, a T & M bill can be very aggravating- unless there is a LOT of trust between the two of you.

With 'flat rate,' the job is done, the bill is for the expected amount, all is happy. That's why it works so well.

How you reach your particular price is a whole 'nother thing....

When quoting for jobs, I never break down the costs for the client to see, they get a flat rate quote for the job that I'm happy to do it for. If they decline the quote, that's ok with me. If they accept it, that's a contract.
I once gave a client (for an add-on) a pert-chart, ( a line diagram showing element timescales ), so he could integrate other trades, draw funds on time etc., plus a breakdown itemising labour and material charges. From this, the cheeky b*** worked out my hourly-rate and baulked because he noticed it doubled for the roofing element! (The reason was I had to hire in labour for humping the slates etc. up to roof level). After that experience, I never tell anyone the details of how the price breaks down, or box myself in with finish dates, it will be done when I'm finished and that's what it's going to cost, period. Don't like my terms? Go someplace else.
Flatrating good!

Alan

OK, the thing is, I charge a flatrate most of the time. In fact I rarely do T&M work.
However, each job is assessed on its own field conditions and the "quote" is drawn accordingly.
I'm not opposed to flat rate pricing, I'm just surprised at the prices those who belong to the "system" are able to charge.

Redsy, keyword was "elderly man".

Not saying all of you do this, but in my area, that is the norm. Prices seem to be charged per age. The older someone is, the more it costs.

(and be careful Reds, you may get e-mails from you know who)


Dnk.....

Hello, I just wanted to say that flat rate pricing is good for both the contractor and the customer. there is nothing more to discuss here is the price here is what you get. my techs are able to price the job when they are on site and get approval with out having a ten minute call to the shop on pricing for a service upgrade or just adding a switch, we call this menu pricing. some of the most commonly performed work with cost average for each item and compile a number. Yeh you may lose on 1 job and make money on the other ten.
john

I am flatrating since 4 years and have good experience with it.
Done in the right way-under concideration of ethical standards every customer knows the price before they order any work.They have a fair chance to say thanks, but no thanks.
What pricing system is used doesn't matter
both have to be applied in a proper way.
I can take someone over with flatrate as much as I can with T&M.It is the person on the job making that decision,not the pricing system used.
However i think the point teraohm is making here is,how far is the tech entitlet to a cut out of that top level hr calculation?
and i think that question is legitimate.