I just wanted to mention that I recently heard that Murray has somehow redesigned their Panelboards and claim that other breakers tested and classified for use in the older panels can not be used in newer Murray Panels.

Has anyone else heard this?

Bill

Hello Bill

This is a very interesting situation. I myself am a little confused over this issue, because of conflicting info that is available.
I have some info in my office, I am at home, that I will dig up later about this. I will say that I have spoke to both UL and individual manufacturers about this subject and I cannot do justice to this subject until I get the info from my office.

Pierre

Bill,
If Murray has redesigned the bus in their panels, then neither the listed nor classified breakers made for the older panels would be permitted to be used in the new panel. If they made a big enough change to be able to patent the new bus and breaker design, they will be able to prevent any one from making "classified" breakers that fit the new panel. I believe this is exactly what happened with the Square D QO breakers. That bus design is unique and was patented by Square D. There were no third party breakers available for that panel for many years. Now there are "classified" breakers that can be used in the Square D QO panels. I assume that this is because the patent has expired.
Don

Pierre,

Thanks, I look forward to seeing what you have come up with on this issue, it is very confusing.

Don,

I don't know specific details but heard that an official letter/memo would be coming out from them about it.

Bill

breakergate again?

This issue of "classified breakers" is one of the reasons that I believe that 110.3(B) only applies to the information in the actual "listing and labeling" and does not include "manufacturer's instructions" as all manufacturers state that you can only use their breakers in their panels>
Don

Breakergate...LOL!!!

Scott35

Here is the last memo (from 2001) that was passed around about this:

All of the breaker manufactures have published statements like that. Yes, they may be able to void the warranty, but that does not make the use of "classified" breakers a code violation. The "warranty" issue is a legal one, but I have been told that it can be voided if a contractor installs the classified breaker, but not if the end user of the panel installs the "classified" breaker. (is our resident attorney still around?) This is a perfect example of a "manufacturer's instruction" that 110.3(B) does not require you to follow.
Don

conversely FPE fires continued to have our monitoring agencies backpeddle ,despite being installed via listed instructions....

Just my 2 cents but I heard that ITE Siemans and Murray were the same company. ( I don't know if one merged with the other or who is the parent company) If that is so, then I would think that Murray and ITE Siemans would be interchangeable. Right?

Harold,
They must be either listed or classified for use in that panel no matter who made the breaker. Just because it is of the same brand or another brand made by the same company does not mean you are permitted to use it.
Don

wow ! i just it dont start a "breakergate" again. just like one forum sometime back it started a simple question and end up with warm debates with it . anyway back to the point that is new to me to know about murray breaker. ( which i dont deal with not often ) anyways just a quick point to say thanks guys for posting here to i can be prepare for it when i run into it


merci marc

Harold

Siemens purchased the Crouse-Hinds distribution line and renamed it Murray which is what it was called before it was Crouse-Hinds. They discontinued the original Crouse-Hinds breakers and relabeled their Siemens breakers with the Murray part numbers. I'm not sure why they don't list both the Siemens Murray number on the breakers but they don't. Westinghouse did the same thing a while back when they purchased the Challenger line. They replaced the original Challenger breakers with their own (Bryant) line but didn't list both part number on the breakers. Even though the breakers were identical you had to use the Challenger breakers in Challenger panels and the Westinghouse in Westinghouse panels. After Cutler-hammer purchases the Westinghouse distribution line they discontinued having 2 separate lines and labeled the breakers with both the Challenger and Westinghouse part numbers.

Curt