It has been our aim to provide where we see a need and be as useful to our members, patrons and the Industry as we can. After speaking to some local Inspectors and IAEI members I've had the idea that it could be very beneficial for them (and others) to have a Forum to easily communicate and poll others with similar interests and responsibilities. To make it most useful and accomodating to them it would be hidden from public view thereby offering some privacy and freedom from distractions. One suggested creditial needed for participation would be IAEI membership.

I hope that this would not detract in any way from our present forums and serve to attract even more participation by those with serious interests in our trade and it's future.

Your feedback is welcome

Bill

It is interesting that you should suggest a level of privacy for a group that has no such function at their own Site

Sparky,

Can you elaborate a little more on your response? The only thing that you are pointing out is the absence of similar 'accomodations'. Does this mean that you see no potential benefit to this?

Bill

Bill - I think what Sparky is saying: At the IAEI site they do provide a forum for their members but it is not private...so why would this site provide a private forum for IAEI members that their own site does not consider necessary.

Another way of looking at it is - why should these guys (IAEI) get a special benefit from this site?

I am an IAEI member but don't see any benefits to being so.

Dana,

Thanks for your response.
I am an IAEI member. Many of 'these guys' (IAEI) are already here.

I am sure that there are many people (ie. Inspectors, AHJs etc) that are serious about the trade and code issues that would be very hesitant to post in an open forum. In a place where they know that they will be in the presence of peers and possibly a more reliable pool of information they may come forward and ask that question. That's where they benefit from being a part of an association.

So, why can't that change?

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 01-29-2002).]

I'm a member of IAEI, but that doesn't automatically mean that I know what I am talking about. I don't see membership in the IAEI making the information posted any more reliable then that which is posted by experienced people from the trade. A privte forum makes me think that some inspectors have something to hide.
Don(resqcapt19)

Don,

I was in no way inferring that IAEI membership meant anything other than being part of an organization of people that were serious about what they were doing. I really didn't expect to draw all negative opinions on this.

Bill

OOOOF, as an IAEI member of nearly 20 years seniority (LONG before I was an inspector) I agree with Don, Sparky, and the others.

Being an IAEI member does not mean you understand,
how many times have I asked the opinion of the forum here? ANYONE that presumes to say they understand every aspect of this trade, is not a bright individual.

I think if we start hiding anything on this forum, we lose what is a REAL good situation. Just because someone says "I don't like the way you enforced that" does not change my opinion if I believe I have theory, and good trade practice on my side.

Now, I am an inspector, and an IAEI full member (no longer associate) my vote is

HIDE NOTHING

What the heck, why not just do it and see how it goes?
All this discussion reminds me of a comment by a home owner, at another electrician site, that he didn't realize how stupid electricians were..or sometihing to that effect. He mistook difference of code interpretation as a sign that we really don't know what we're doing. It might be helpful to create some "firewall" for "inspector" discussions. I personally don't care. I'm NOT an IAEI member, and if those who ARE want to have there own little private group then they can have at it. And when they are done sorting it all out, they can bestow upon us their great wisdom..kind of a trickle down theory. Course they might be 'trickling' in the wind, after they face an open forum.

[This message has been edited by Elzappr (edited 01-29-2002).]

I want to make it clear that the 'private' part as it is being referred to was my idea, not that of anyone else. This was something I was offering to a local chapter for their use and what I thought would be a tool they would use and it would be nice to invite participation of other members.

Of course some will think that someone is hiding something but I think that's a pessimistic view of things. If IAEI membership is one condition for participation it could hardly be considered private. I just thought it would provide a more productive and accomodating atmosphere that would entice more to participate.

Maybe I'm wrong, I thought I saw an opportunity to provide a service that could benefit everyone somehow including those that we haven't heard from yet.

If anyone else would like to add an opinion please do, either here or my email:

Bill@Electrical-Contractor.net

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 01-30-2002).]

Bill
Your head may be in the right place, but I believe as some of the others; do you really want an isolated location where only members of a certain group can chat? (If a subject is important enough to someone belonging to the IAEI it is also important to a non-menber). To me, this would be a turn off to your site. Its like the "contractors" only location at the supply house-you see it and people are turned off due to the stigma associated - Non-contractors are not welcome - I know this is not the reason for the special location but its the image portrayed that is important. It appears that you have a good group of people contributing to your site - I think it is a gamble on your part - you may alienate more than you gain.

Bill -

I commend your efforts to get additional participation and I understand some being concerned about reactions in an open forum.

However, I've never considered any of these forums totally 'open'. As I go through the different members IDs there really is no information about anyone - you and George seem to be the only members actually using your names. I mean, who is 'dana'? or sparky, etc....an inspector in CGO, an electrician in Baltimore? Peoples identidies are completely masked in these forums so folks really do have an opportunity to speak their minds, opinions or mistakes without anyone else knowing who that individual really is.

But - all that said, if you go over to the IAEI site which is for members, there is very little participation compared to this site; you can go for days betweens postings.

No one liked the new format and went away. It used to have as much participation as this one or Mike Holts.

I use my name, but I am very careful to post the differences of my opinion, my practices (wether right or wrong), and what I know to be true and citation of facts. If I get called on a fact I better have the source ready to show, especially in such a letigious society. I view this forum to be a place where we can all talk and pass around ideas to make our lives and those of the people who we work for safer in the end.

I think one of the great things about ECN is the fact that anyone that is interested can participate.
If there's a little room for every clique, that will be lost.
Not being a "members only" group has been one of the reasons (IMHO) that this group has grown so well in the last year or so that I've been here.

Nick,

I am an IAEI member. I have also noticed that the IAEI message board has limited activity. I've often wondered why. It's disappointing. I remember when it used to be very active.

I use my full name when posting at this message board because I want to hold myself somewhat accountable for my words. I've often questioned if I'm doing the right thing. By using my full name it makes me think twice before I post anything. I used to be embarrassed to ask "stupid questions". I do realize however that nobody knows everything. Our trade has so many specialty areas. The people that post here have been kind and informative.

Bill,

I wouldn't be oppossed to what you suggest. As Elzappr noted "What the heck, why not just do it and see how it goes".

Maybe the IAEI fellows could participate more in their own group. Maybe they could exclude others from their own website.

I don't believe that's the reason that the ECN website is here, but then again I might be wrong.
If all non-contractors (After all, it is "Electrical Contractor's Network") were excluded, I wouldn't ever have come here! I don't have a C-10 license.
Our engineer friends aren't "electrical contractors", surprisingly, none of the inspector friends post as a "contractor", but I sure appreciate their help!
I learn something new from a helper every day.
If you want a stuffy, facts only website, then conform it.
I like it the way it is !!