I just saw on the Weather Channel a clip by Today's Homeowner. An exhaust fan was being installed and the demonstration detailed the romex and fan wire to be scotchlocked in the open (no box). Some of the questions and replys on the This Old House forum are also frightening.
Rowdy

Not quite from a TV show, but you get the idea. No GFCI in this location (cabinet underneath a bathroom sink). Imagine if one of these pipes springs a leak and sprays all over the place.



It was taken from this website: http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/bath/projects/remod_w1/vanity_s/install24.htm

The installer explains that the outlet is for a "hot water recirc pump"

Regarding the recept.:
Although a GFCI under a kitchen sink might be a good idea, it is not a code requirement.
In addition, the device in the picture might be GFCI protected by a device upstream.

Ohh...

I thought that the area under a sink would also be classified as a "damp location" considering it could be subject to drips and all...

I forgot about the upstream GFCI (the site's author never mentioned it being GFCI protected or anything).

Ron,
While you are correct that a receptacle in a cabinet under a kitchen sink would not require GFCI protection, the post said this was a bathroom sink. All bathroom receptacles require GFCI protection, even if under a sink.
Don

Greetings all from a first timer,
i can't sit here and stare at that drain and trap installation without asking what's wrong with that picture?it belongs on a plumbing "how not to,bless the diy for trying "forum.receptacle $25.00,plumbing parts,$50.00,installation technique "priceless"

greeting pwood, welcome to ECN.

we as a trade have been at odds with DYI'ers since the trade began, yet our prime motivation is simply safety.

this is usually echoed here given the amount we see that is unsafe.

so it falls on us, as ambassadors of our trade to explain to those like whom inquire.

feel free, we can use the practice.

Your right! I just noticed that the trap is upside down.



TW

So is the receptacle!

Holy smokes Trainwire! You're right!!!

Don't you just hate traps without the cleanout plug?

P.S.: I hate doing plumbing.

What started out as a simple washer replacement, resulted in a totally new sink installation this past weekend.

First, spouse opened the faucet stems to discover the things had been forced and the threads sliced right off.

Then the leaky P-Trap under the sink was so corroded that when he went to feel for leaks, his finger went right through the pipe!!

So we pull the jammed and rotten cabinet from under the (theoretically) wall mounted sink. Realize sink is only held in place with a wood screw so it starts to come apart. We undo the pipes and take the sink off. Sink wasn't square to the wall so previous "installer" jammed a roll of newspaper sales flyer from 1979 in there (sale on 19" color TV sets). Discover that the old P-Trap was CROSS THREADED to the cast iron pipe in the wall.

Head out to Home Desperate and go out and buy a large pipe wrench and fittings, plus the new cabinet (thinking they're all standard). At leat the old trap came off without breaking the cast iron waste pipe or stripping its threads. Call mommy to schlepp us back home with the stuff in her micro-bus.

Come back home at 11:15 p.m. Find out sink doesn't fit new cabinet. Drive back to the Big Orange box - bummer. They closed at midnight. We arrived at 12:10. Crash at mommy's house.

Get up early Sunday morning and return cabinet. Take the old sink to the store to fit onto a new cabinet. No luck. Time is wasting and here I am dragging a groaty old porcelain monster in an orange cart.

Finally we go for the tiny $70 Home Desperate slumlord special with the "cultured marble" sink (it's cast resin, fer cryin'out loud). Emphasis on DESPERATE. I leave the old porcelain sink lying on the bench in front of the store I was so pissed! :P

Plus pipes, drain, fittings, etc.

Finally we got everything to go in with no problem and most importantly with no leaks last Monday night at around 10 p.m.

What was supposed to be a three-for-a-nickel simple washer replacement turned into a $100-plus job!

I think I'll stick with electricty...at least it doesn't leak and spill all over the floor!!!

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 02-04-2003).]

Hey Sven, I can relate
When we moved into this house, there was white carpet on the floor in the bathroom. I'd never heard of white carpet in the bathroom, but here we are.
We were here six years when the toilet started to wobble. I teased my wife that one morning one of us would sit down, right into the basement.
Well, one evening, I pulled a corner up on that now not so white carpet, and it was one of those things that once you start, there's no going back.
The floor used to be 5/8 particle board, I took it out with a dustpan. Underneath that was four layers of wood that used to be glued together. Turns out the teasing was almost right
God bless the man that invented the sawzall.
Everything out to the studs and start over. In a house with only one bathroom.
Ever try to mash a bathroom remodel into a budget where there wasn't one?
Oh well, the joys of home ownership.

TW

Rowdy,
I can dig your concern. I would never tell anyone that they can't work on their own house. I think a wise DIY'er would stay away from electrical work. With the advent of the "Blue" and "Orange" boxes, I think DYI electrical work is not only here to stay, but will in the future get worse. The sad part of this story is....how many houses have, and will burn down because of DIY electrical work. How many have, or will.....how shall I say it?.......parish....because of DIY electric.
As we all know, every joint is a potential fire. The problem with DIY'ers is that they don't know it.

Freedom? Yes!
Wisdom? Please!
Doc

LOL~ good one Sven


well said Doc, in my little corner of the 'lectrical universe i've simply found that you can't beat 'em, so join 'em.

that said, there is to me quite the difference from a DIY'er, and those whom pass themselves off on others as a psuedo-sparky.

~S

pwood,
Is that an "S" trap? And aren't they illegal?

Brian,

You're on the money, that is a no longer allowed "S" Trap. Also that white s*** pipe is well known for leaking.

Bob

Bob, The white pipe is commonly used in my area. Our company does plumbing as well as electrical. I've never had much in the way of problems with the pvc/slipnut p-traps, but I'm in no way an expert plumber,just a decent journeyman.

Sparky

"psuedo sparky"

HEY! I resemble that remark!

TW

edit @#@$ spelling

[This message has been edited by Trainwire (edited 02-05-2003).]

ga.sparky.56

Lot of that stuff up here too and a lot of plumbers will warranty it until they hit the front door. Doesn't say much for the stuff IMO. But, I'm not a plumber.

On the DIY shows, I hate them. They convinced my wife that I could re-do the kitchen cabinets in 30 minutes.

Bob

bingo brian!
s trap bad toy. they tend to siphon out the trap thus allowing sewer gas to abound in the throne room.don't light that stogie while reading the morning rag while doing the morning movement or you could be tomorrow's headline. typically a trap arm would run to the wall to a drain and a "vent" to prevent a possible disaster.so sparkies even "recreational plumbing" can be hazardous to your health.kids "don't try this at home"darn lectricians put dat box whar my pipe posed ta go?

Sven and TW,

Does this sound familiar. "Why do you always have to make 2 or 3 trips to Home Depot?" I have learned to always measure or take the part with me when I go.

Quote from Sven. (thinking they're all standard)

Scott

I've made one single attempt at plumbing and will never make another. (The company owning the building wanted $4000 to add a sink to a bar. As it was needed to meet the authorities requirements, and we didn't have the money we did it ourselves. $500, but it looks like s***, and I always fear that it'll start to leak.)

Don't most if not all U.S. plumbing codes (I believe there are several) require a separate vent pipe taken directly from the downstream end of the trap? I don't see one anywhere.....


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 02-05-2003).]