ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 19
Recent Posts
Anyone hiring inspectors?
by Admin. 03/26/17 02:42 PM
Old decora style outlets
by Admin. 03/25/17 11:40 AM
ESA Arc flash course
by TheShockDoctors. 03/24/17 10:15 AM
fuse rejectors
by HotLine1. 03/24/17 07:53 AM
Another Forum Update
by Admin. 03/22/17 03:04 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,518 Are you busy
166,223 Re: Forum
160,664 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 70 guests, and 11 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#99063 - 07/13/06 05:49 PM Inspector needs Code reference  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
I need a Code refernce if there is one.
Existing store being seperated into two units. Each will have their own service.
Low bidder wants to use the existing single raceway to the rooftop units with feeders from the two seperate services for the seperate rooftop units.
Sounds like a hazard to me but, I would sure like to back it up with a Code reference.
210.25 is for dwelling units to common areas.
230.2 is for services.
Is there a rule about feeders in commercial areas ??
Alan--


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#99064 - 07/13/06 07:05 PM Re: Inspector needs Code reference  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Alan- the only thing that I found is in Art. 225 Sect. 225.31 & 32. I don't know if this helps you but it does convey the thought of different feeders from different sources and how to handle them. Beyond that, your on your own. See Ya in Traverse City in September.


George Little

#99065 - 07/14/06 08:45 AM Re: Inspector needs Code reference  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
Thanks George,
I guess when I can't find it then nobody can.
The idea of power from two sources in the same raceway just seems like a sure way to get someone hurt.
Alan--


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

#99066 - 07/14/06 02:34 PM Re: Inspector needs Code reference  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
George,
Found the solution in section 215.5.
If the low bidder wants to mix feeders from two different services then the AHJ (me)will require compliance with 215.5 and have copies posted at each service. [Linked Image]
Alan--


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

#99067 - 07/15/06 06:40 AM Re: Inspector needs Code reference  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Just because you can does not always mean you should...

BTW are you actually the AHJ or are you an inspector, in many areas that is not the same.


JMO, Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#99068 - 07/15/06 06:43 AM Re: Inspector needs Code reference  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Alan you might want to talk to the power company they may not want / allow different metered power in common enclosures and raceways.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#99069 - 07/15/06 12:01 PM Re: Inspector needs Code reference  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
Iwire,
I'm the local AHJ but, there is the right to appeal any decision I make to the local review board and / or to the State Building Commissioner.
I've had two appeals in 25 years and was supported both times.
Alan--
The Code is to promote safety and I feel that circuits from two seperate services in the same raceway is creating an unnecessary hazardous condition.
Alan--

[This message has been edited by Alan Nadon (edited 07-15-2006).]


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

#99070 - 07/16/06 12:05 AM Re: Inspector needs Code reference  
tdhorne  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 345
Maryland, USA
The maxim of the law is that whatever is not forbidden is lawful. The code forbids having both emergency and none emergency conductors in the same raceway. I believe it is silent on the issue of conductors from two services in the same raceway. I would agree that it is an unusual installation but if it is not forbidden by the code then you will have to hang your decision on clear and present danger. Iwire may have hit on a remedy in that the rules of your states utility regulatory agency may forbid the mingling of conductors from two different meters in the same raceway.
--
Tom Horne


Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison

#99071 - 07/17/06 04:26 AM Re: Inspector needs Code reference  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Alan it is up to you and I am not trying to start 'stuff' with you.

Quote
The Code is to promote safety and I feel that circuits from two separate services in the same raceway is creating an unnecessary hazardous condition.


You may feel it is hazardous condition but the NEC does not, you are going out on your own here.

Using 215.5 as a form of extortion to get what you want is hardly fair to ECs that are following the NEC.

Consider this, the NEC does not prohibit conductors from optional standby systems from occupying the same raceways as utility power. Mixing conductors from separate sources is common.

If you feel it is a hazard you should put in a proposal.

Don't let the fact that you have been doing it 25 years make you forget your job is not to make code but enforce existing code.


JMO, Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#99072 - 07/19/06 10:03 PM Re: Inspector needs Code reference  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,801
Brick, NJ USA
Alan:
Re-reading your question:

One raceway to/thru roof to 'units' from two tenant meters??

Sounds like a 'design' thing. I know of no Article to prohibit this.

From the safety angle, are the terminations identified?

We (NJ) have the same basic Appeals system that you described; we also have DCA (State) people we can get interpertations from, BUT, they are that person's OPINION. The AHJ has the 'Final" decision, albeit subject to the Board of Appeals.

Usually, I try to 'work out' situations one on one, not saying it works all the time, but......

John


John

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
HappyElectrician
HappyElectrician
Penn USA
Posts: 31
Joined: December 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.024s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8170 MB (Peak: 0.9939 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-26 20:39:25 UTC