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Posted By: Alan Nadon Inspector needs Code reference - 07/13/06 09:49 PM
I need a Code refernce if there is one.
Existing store being seperated into two units. Each will have their own service.
Low bidder wants to use the existing single raceway to the rooftop units with feeders from the two seperate services for the seperate rooftop units.
Sounds like a hazard to me but, I would sure like to back it up with a Code reference.
210.25 is for dwelling units to common areas.
230.2 is for services.
Is there a rule about feeders in commercial areas ??
Alan--
Posted By: George Little Re: Inspector needs Code reference - 07/13/06 11:05 PM
Alan- the only thing that I found is in Art. 225 Sect. 225.31 & 32. I don't know if this helps you but it does convey the thought of different feeders from different sources and how to handle them. Beyond that, your on your own. See Ya in Traverse City in September.
Posted By: Alan Nadon Re: Inspector needs Code reference - 07/14/06 12:45 PM
Thanks George,
I guess when I can't find it then nobody can.
The idea of power from two sources in the same raceway just seems like a sure way to get someone hurt.
Alan--
Posted By: Alan Nadon Re: Inspector needs Code reference - 07/14/06 06:34 PM
George,
Found the solution in section 215.5.
If the low bidder wants to mix feeders from two different services then the AHJ (me)will require compliance with 215.5 and have copies posted at each service. [Linked Image]
Alan--
Posted By: iwire Re: Inspector needs Code reference - 07/15/06 10:40 AM
Just because you can does not always mean you should...

BTW are you actually the AHJ or are you an inspector, in many areas that is not the same.


JMO, Bob
Posted By: iwire Re: Inspector needs Code reference - 07/15/06 10:43 AM
Alan you might want to talk to the power company they may not want / allow different metered power in common enclosures and raceways.
Posted By: Alan Nadon Re: Inspector needs Code reference - 07/15/06 04:01 PM
Iwire,
I'm the local AHJ but, there is the right to appeal any decision I make to the local review board and / or to the State Building Commissioner.
I've had two appeals in 25 years and was supported both times.
Alan--
The Code is to promote safety and I feel that circuits from two seperate services in the same raceway is creating an unnecessary hazardous condition.
Alan--

[This message has been edited by Alan Nadon (edited 07-15-2006).]
Posted By: tdhorne Re: Inspector needs Code reference - 07/16/06 04:05 AM
The maxim of the law is that whatever is not forbidden is lawful. The code forbids having both emergency and none emergency conductors in the same raceway. I believe it is silent on the issue of conductors from two services in the same raceway. I would agree that it is an unusual installation but if it is not forbidden by the code then you will have to hang your decision on clear and present danger. Iwire may have hit on a remedy in that the rules of your states utility regulatory agency may forbid the mingling of conductors from two different meters in the same raceway.
--
Tom Horne
Posted By: iwire Re: Inspector needs Code reference - 07/17/06 08:26 AM
Alan it is up to you and I am not trying to start 'stuff' with you.

Quote
The Code is to promote safety and I feel that circuits from two separate services in the same raceway is creating an unnecessary hazardous condition.

You may feel it is hazardous condition but the NEC does not, you are going out on your own here.

Using 215.5 as a form of extortion to get what you want is hardly fair to ECs that are following the NEC.

Consider this, the NEC does not prohibit conductors from optional standby systems from occupying the same raceways as utility power. Mixing conductors from separate sources is common.

If you feel it is a hazard you should put in a proposal.

Don't let the fact that you have been doing it 25 years make you forget your job is not to make code but enforce existing code.


JMO, Bob
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Inspector needs Code reference - 07/20/06 02:03 AM
Alan:
Re-reading your question:

One raceway to/thru roof to 'units' from two tenant meters??

Sounds like a 'design' thing. I know of no Article to prohibit this.

From the safety angle, are the terminations identified?

We (NJ) have the same basic Appeals system that you described; we also have DCA (State) people we can get interpertations from, BUT, they are that person's OPINION. The AHJ has the 'Final" decision, albeit subject to the Board of Appeals.

Usually, I try to 'work out' situations one on one, not saying it works all the time, but......

John
Posted By: Alan Nadon Re: Inspector needs Code reference - 07/20/06 02:56 PM
They haven't done the work yet. It is a bad design in my opinion but, is not a Code violation. I may ask for the junction boxes to be labeled indicating that the conductors are from more than one service.
Next question will be about the required GFI service receptacles for the AC units. House panel or a seperate circuit from each tenant ?
Alan--
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Inspector needs Code reference - 07/20/06 10:04 PM
Alan:
Again, this sounds like a design issue. The House panel for the receptacle would be acceptable, as would one from each tenant's panel.

As to the circuits for the AC's in the J boxes, yes, ID.

John
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