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#82043 - 10/15/02 12:42 PM Existing Drinking Water Fountain
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
An existing drinking water fountain, or cooler is sometimes confusing to those who are not familiar with the NEC where they call for GFCI protection.

We know that 680.2 definition of a fountain does not include a "drinking fountain".

So what gives the right to a Safety Officier to mandate that they be GFCI protected on a government facility?



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 10-17-2002).]
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#82044 - 10/15/02 01:02 PM Re: Existing Drinking Water Fountain
walrus Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 671
Loc: Bangor Me. USA
Authority having Jurisdiction.

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#82045 - 10/15/02 01:09 PM Re: Existing Drinking Water Fountain
Electricmanscott Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Holden, MA USA
Qualified answer? Does a government facility fall under the NEC? Would this be an OSHA requirement? If strictly an NEC issue I would say the safety officer would have no right to require something such as this.

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#82046 - 10/15/02 03:08 PM Re: Existing Drinking Water Fountain
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
 Quote:
walrus
Authority having Jurisdiction.


Please explain what this means? See 90.4.

Electricmanscott:

I agree, and thought that the safety officier didn't have an NEC rule to cite.

What I mean when I ask for a "qualified answer" is a reply that gives an opinion such as yours.

I like to discuss the subjects that I post so that I can help with the questions that are asked of me "real time".

I expect that some of my students will join ECN, especially when they find out that their questions can be answered on this bulletin board.

Thanks
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#82047 - 10/15/02 04:11 PM Re: Existing Drinking Water Fountain
walrus Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 671
Loc: Bangor Me. USA
My Understanding of the AHJ, the person or body that decides how the code(s) will be applied to a specific case. The final say in how certain code(s) get applied in their area of responsibility. The AHJ opinions must have some basis in fact and cannot be pulled out of thin air



[This message has been edited by walrus (edited 10-15-2002).]

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#82048 - 10/15/02 04:55 PM Re: Existing Drinking Water Fountain
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
walrus:

That's what I thought you were thinking.

I also agree that the AHJ cannot, and should not pull or develop rules out of the thin air.
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#82049 - 10/15/02 05:47 PM Re: Existing Drinking Water Fountain
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Joe,

Is this "Goverment" facility fall under Federal laws? Or maybe state rules? Here in NJ, the municiple inspector has no jurisdition with state or fed. buildings. Unless someone else owns the building. For example, if the Dept. of Motor Vehicle rents space in a local store front, then we would inspect the building. If it is a train station or post office, we are hands off.

Caper

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#82050 - 10/15/02 06:09 PM Re: Existing Drinking Water Fountain
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Joe:
The NEC is the "minimum" standards required for electrical installations; correct?
We as inspectors are mandated to enforce the NEC.
We as contractors are mandated to perform our installations to the NEC, as MINIMUM standards.

WE as contractors CAN exceed the NEC requirements; correct???
WE as inspectors CANNOT mandate standards that exceed the NEC; correct??

The "Safety Officer", may have the jurisdiction to mandate GFI's if he is not stating "they are required by the NEC".
Engineers and architects can specify installations that exceed the NEC; wire size, pipe size, "spec" devices; GFI's all over, etc.

The above is my humble opinion, as an electrical inspector, and an electrical contractor. (NJ licenses)
John
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#82051 - 10/15/02 06:49 PM Re: Existing Drinking Water Fountain
Roger Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
Joe, the term "safety officer" should be clarified.

Is this an individual such as a Home Inspector, where some are very knowledgeable and others are not, and maybe this person is the latter interpreting something wrong.

I know this may not be a qualified answer, but we know this is not a NEC requirement.

If this is an in house issue where he is employed, so be it, but I'm not aware of any codes that would require it.

Roger

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#82052 - 10/15/02 08:40 PM Re: Existing Drinking Water Fountain
sparky66wv Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2339
Loc: West Virginia
Joe,

Could the "GFCI required 6' from sink" myth be rearing it's ugly head here?

Just a thought.
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