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#22462 - 02/22/03 02:14 PM What's the deal in IL
Electricmanscott Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Holden, MA USA
Question for anyone especially Illinois people. Why do the IL codes seem to have an aversion (is that a real word?) to plastic. By this I mean no romex, no pvc drain piping, etc. I wonder what the real deal is behind this. I can not even for a minute beleive this is a safety issue as these systems are in use all over the country without problems. Anybody know the scoop?

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#22463 - 02/22/03 03:36 PM Re: What's the deal in IL
WebSparky Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 144
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
PVC.......

Very hazardous to humans. Read all about it here.
http://www.greenpeaceusa.org/toxics/house.htm

It is probibly a good idea to outlaw it.

Dave
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#22464 - 02/22/03 03:50 PM Re: What's the deal in IL
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
I asked this same basic question on another forum and got the answer I expected, this is a result of strong labor lobbying.

More time = More jobs
Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#22465 - 02/22/03 04:54 PM Re: What's the deal in IL
Elzappr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/01
Posts: 273
Loc: Oregon
From what I've seen, most of the legal/political resistance to adding to the amount of toxic combustion products has come from the fire marshals. Unfortunately they eventually lose out to commercial interests. Sure, there are those who hate to see the old way give way for the faster and cheaper, but they have just been the cheerleaders for the firefighters in this issue.

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#22466 - 02/23/03 07:34 AM Re: What's the deal in IL
classicsat Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 449
From what I understand, some city regualtors are still wary of the repurcussions of some lady's cow kicking over a lamp.

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#22467 - 02/23/03 08:09 AM Re: What's the deal in IL
golf junkie Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 511
Loc: York, NE
Iwire has it right.........strong labor unions.

GJ

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#22468 - 02/23/03 08:12 AM Re: What's the deal in IL
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
It is funny how different the code is place to place. Here in MA they amended the 2002 NEC so I can still run NM in suspended ceilings in other then residences, this leads to NM being used in concrete and steel buildings like a 80,000 sq ft super markets. It looks poor and IMHO does not belong there.

But now I have learned if I was to build a house around Chicago it would be an EMT (MC & AC just for fishing I am told) job in a wood building, this seems like overkill to me, all the complaints about how AFCIs add to the cost of a house I have heard here, pale in comparison of the added cost to do a house in EMT.

The smoke produced by the amount of all the NM in a house would probably be less then the smoke produced by just the couch, and the NM would be behind sheetrock and spread out, I think the safety argument here is a con to make more work, Just my opinion I have not been there but I figure fire is the same everywhere
Bob


[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 02-23-2003).]
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#22469 - 02/23/03 11:43 AM Re: What's the deal in IL
SvenNYC Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 1685
Loc: New York City
Apparently it's been determined that it wasn't a cow that kicked over the lamp that caused the Chicago fire. It was some kids playing around with the lamp that started the fire....they just blamed the poor cow.

I'm really no fan of PVC. You can't bend it easily...and I've seen lots of shattered pipe during my strolls past jobsites.

In New York, it's commonly used as conduit for underground telephone wires though...so it has to be strong enough, considering the amount of weight that's placed above them (dirt, paving, trucks, cars, etc).

However I think most in-house potable water piping is still done mostly in copper...at least the examples I've seen.

WARNING - Changing locality -

In Colombia, PVC pipe is common in new construction for in-house potable water pipe. Cheaper than copper equivalent...that's for sure.

Electrical conduit placed IN WALL is common there also. A lot of single-family houses are solid masonry throughout - brick, block and mortar. Ditto two and three family houses.

PVC conduit and plastic boxes are also popular for these applications.

The RFP for a new building for the Colombian Army called for Romex sheathed in PVC conduit that would be placed inside the masonry walls of the building. It was posted on the Colombian government's website.

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#22470 - 02/23/03 05:22 PM Re: What's the deal in IL
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
iwire,

I am an inspector here in NJ and one of the jobs that I am inspecting is a 5 story senior citzen housing project. The electrical contractor (EC) is from Boston, MA and he was saying that in MA he would be allowed under the NEC amendments to run MN wire in this building. As long as he didn't leave the floor. That would not be the case here in NJ, he has to run MC through out the whole building. ( I am not for or against this rule.) I was just wondering about it.

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#22471 - 02/23/03 05:39 PM Re: What's the deal in IL
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
2002 MEC 334.12(1). Revise to read as follows.
 Quote:

Exception: Type NM, Type NMC and Type NMS cables shall be permitted to be used in one and two family dwellings, multi-family dwellings and other structures of Type I and II construction, provided that where such dwellings or structures exceed three floors above grade Type NM, Type NMC and Type NMS cables shall not be permitted to leave the floor or dwelling unit from which the cables originated


In the typical apartment building this means NM in the units and AC for the public or common spaces.
Bob

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 02-23-2003).]
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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