ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 16
Recent Posts
fuse rejectors
by gfretwell. 03/23/17 01:12 PM
Another Forum Update
by Admin. 03/22/17 03:04 PM
Dining room plugs
by watersparkfalls. 03/21/17 10:31 PM
TRUE POWER
by jraef. 03/21/17 09:13 PM
WEG CFW-11 Frequency Inverter
by jraef. 03/21/17 08:50 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,239 Are you busy
165,949 Re: Forum
160,476 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (TheShockDoctors), 81 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#170504 - 11/04/07 07:05 PM 410.16 (C) vs. "independent support"  
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Where do we get a requirement to independently support lay-in luminaires? Local rules?

Sometimes I see it, sometimes I don't.

Thanks,

John


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#170508 - 11/04/07 07:47 PM Re: 410.16 (C) vs. "independent support" [Re: Redsy]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,798
Brick, NJ USA
Redsy:
A 'plain english' explanation....

NEC requires fixtures to be 'attached' to the grid, by mechanical means; screws, clips, rivets, etc. in most cases. This is the 'basic' NEC requirement...this is what an Electrical Inspector can enforce, but....

Ind. support is required in seismic areas.

Ind. support MAY be required by plans/specs.

Ind. support IS required in certain 'Fire Rated' ceiling assemblies (I have never seen one)

And; a 'COMMON SENSE' rule would be IF the fixture deflects the grid....install support!.

Who the enforcement falls upon...Electric Insp for NEC and Plans/Specs.; Building or Fire for seismic; Fire/Building for 'fire rated' assembly. (My understanding of the NJ UCC)

The 'common sense' rule.....enforcement??



John

#170512 - 11/04/07 09:13 PM Re: 410.16 (C) vs. "independent support" [Re: Redsy]  
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Thanks John!

I'm bidding a "Family Dollar" store in Camden.
The specs are "cookie cutter" for each store. They require 8' fixtures, surface mounted on a drop ceiling. (I know I mentioned troffers in my original post, but I believe the question still pertains.)
I'm looking at Caddy "4G" series fixture mounts and wonder if additional support would be required.

http://www.erico.com/products/CADDYcfcTwistOnFixSprt.asp

Last edited by Redsy; 11/04/07 09:15 PM.

#170526 - 11/05/07 08:32 AM Re: 410.16 (C) vs. "independent support" [Re: Redsy]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,798
Brick, NJ USA
John:
IMHO, the 'common sense' aproach should be used. Back in time..8' channels were heavy, made of real metal, and had heavier mag ballasts, so...additional support was required.

What do the plans/spec indicate; if anything. Also, I (IMHO) would check out the grid. Some 'new' grid is pretty flimsy, and how much support is on the grid itself?

I have negotiated 'extra' ceiling wire from the ceiling contractor; it was a worthwile $$$ spent.

Check out Caddy 'IDS' items Independent Support Clips.



John

#170528 - 11/05/07 09:49 AM Re: 410.16 (C) vs. "independent support" [Re: HotLine1]  
electure  Offline


Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,259
Fullerton, CA USA
HotLine,

We'll have to make you an official "California Guy". crazy

Out here in Seismic Area 4, we use the Caddy IDS hangers that you recommend for just such an application.

http://www.erico.com/products/CADDYcfcIndSprtClps.asp

They're of extra value when the layout of the fixtures, lighting track, etc. don't fall right on a main runner of the grid. The cross tees are comparatively weak and the IDS support clips can provide the support for the fixtures no matter what the layout.

Usually the GC will have the ceiling contractor shoot the additional support wires and seismic splay wires. If not, a case of beer or 2 to the ceiling guy seems to do the trick

smile


#170529 - 11/05/07 09:50 AM Re: 410.16 (C) vs. "independent support" [Re: HotLine1]  
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 900
Chicago Illinois USA
I like the 'extra' ceiling wire idea.

I worked at an industrial plant outside Chicago and one of the processes was carried out in a room that had 2x4 troffers and a suspended ceiling. The process was apparently corrosive to the ceiling wires, because 1 day the whole grid let loose and dropped tiles on everybody.

The troffers stayed hanging by their small safety chains. If not for that little bit of extra protection, I'm sure that someone would have gotten a fixture dropped on their head that day.


Ghost307

#170539 - 11/05/07 02:06 PM Re: 410.16 (C) vs. "independent support" [Re: ghost307]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,798
Brick, NJ USA
Electure:
Thank you for the honor of being a Calif. guy. I spent a little shy of three weeks from SF to San Diego quite a few years ago, and really would like to get back! This time SF north to ???




John


Member Spotlight
lil suzi
lil suzi
Midwest
Posts: 57
Joined: August 2003
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.017s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.7856 MB (Peak: 0.9414 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-23 18:19:44 UTC