The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#163886 - 05/20/07 09:37 AM What's wrong here? Disconnect Installation
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Picture from Norcal:



Top
Tools for Electricians:
#163888 - 05/20/07 09:48 AM Re: What's wrong here? Disconnect Installation [Re: renosteinke]
NJwirenut Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/01
Posts: 816
Loc: Bergen County, NJ
ASSuming that this is an outdoor installation:

Disconnect not 3R rated
Greenfield not acceptable in wet location.
Receptacle below disconnect not wet location type, no cover.
Panel on left appears to have pipe plug installed in top hub, rather than proper closeoff plate.

Top
#163889 - 05/20/07 10:00 AM Re: What's wrong here? Disconnect Installation [Re: NJwirenut]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Interesting claim that 'Greenfield' (flexible metallic conduit) is not allowed in wet locations

Are you sure? After all, MC is allowed in wet locations.

As for the receptacles .... would their being located under the larger boxes make those 'damp,' rather than 'wet' locations?

This pic also suggests two other issues.
The first is the matter of lock out / tag out. It looks to me that the disco is old enough (pre-1990) that you may not be able to lock it out.

The second is the surface that everything is mounted on. How do you mount stuff to sheet metal walls - especially when you don't have access to the other face?

Top
#163891 - 05/20/07 11:20 AM Re: What's wrong here? Disconnect Installation [Re: renosteinke]
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
 Originally Posted By: renosteinke
How do you mount stuff to sheet metal walls - especially when you don't have access to the other face?


It depends on what I am mounting.

If it was lightweight I might use a #12 sheet metal screw.

Than I may move to toggle bolts.

Move up again with unistrut and toggles or uni-strut tec-screwed into the building structure under the tin.

Assuming the FMC contains type "W" conductors it would be allowed.

Strangely IMO the liquid tight flexible metal conduit is in violation of 225.22
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

Top
#163892 - 05/20/07 11:21 AM Re: What's wrong here? Disconnect Installation [Re: renosteinke]
NJwirenut Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/01
Posts: 816
Loc: Bergen County, NJ
Well, the greenfield might be acceptable if THWN conductors are used, AND if arranged in such a way as to prevent water entry into enclosures. I personally like to avoid installations that require a "judgement call" on the part of the AHJ, and just use sealtite outdoors.

There was nothing said about lack of access to the opposite side of the wall. Properly securing stuff would be pretty difficult then. MAYBE toggle bolts might have a chance, but I wouldn't really trust them.

Top
#163893 - 05/20/07 11:42 AM Re: What's wrong here? Disconnect Installation [Re: NJwirenut]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Life is seldom cut & dry. I posted this pic here, rather than in "violations,' as it brings up so many things we can discuss!

For example, I personally would not use Greenfield in this application ... but, the NEC does not clearly say "no."

For example ... that pipe plug ... I've never seen an "electrical" one, and I've encountered a few such cans that did not use common plates .... and the maker has long since gone away.
Otherwise, several makes of these boxes require you to have access to the inside to attach a blank plate. Personally, I'd just as soon folks keep their mitts out of such boxes ... so I'd just as soon see them use a plug, than leave it open.

Top
#163894 - 05/20/07 01:43 PM Re: What's wrong here? Disconnect Installation [Re: iwire]
Luketrician Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 273
Loc: Sale Creek, TN USA
 Originally Posted By: iwire

Strangely IMO the liquid tight flexible metal conduit is in violation of 225.22


Could you please explain this? I'm not in disagreement with ya, just trying to understand. Does it have something to do with the "shall be arranged to drain" vernacular mentioned in 225.22?
_________________________
Luke Clarke
Electrical Planner for TVA.


Top
#163925 - 05/20/07 05:52 PM Re: What's wrong here? Disconnect Installation [Re: Luketrician]
NORCAL Offline
Member

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 807
This is the same building as the where the single phase device was being used to supply a 3 phase welder,if you saw inside the switch you would really have a fit w/ all the double lugging and the paper wasp who has made its home inside.

Note to John, that switch can be locked out with no problems.

Top
#163927 - 05/20/07 05:56 PM Re: What's wrong here? Disconnect Installation [Re: NORCAL]
NORCAL Offline
Member

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 807
Decided to add some more details, this building is about 3 years old and is on a farm,being agricultural, requires no inspections.

Top
#164099 - 05/24/07 06:57 PM Re: What's wrong here? Disconnect Installation [Re: NORCAL]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Thinking here...I wonder what's on the inside of these two enclosures??

Disco feeds panel? Panel feeds disco? without seeing the interiors, no clue.

Looks like a feed thru...three raceways into the disco (and a receptacle) Two raceways into 'panel' (and a receptacle).???

Inside or outside? NEMA3 panel, NEMA1 disco.

Flip cover on left device, raised 4" or 5" on right device, interesting.. an in-line GFI on the cord. The greenfield? what's in it?? "w" conductors, OK, but not something this guy would use.

'Nuff said for now.

John
_________________________
John

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals