Some Pictures From My Apartment

lukemon2

Crikey Dick!,
You mean that that neutral has never been connected from day one?

BTW, I dare anyone to try and get another cable through that top cable entry.

the building was built in the 1950's and the wires are not copper

no it was tucked under all the other

ohh the wire sticking out thats the ground from all the plugs and switches etc... even though they are not connected at the wall boxes. go figure.

Actually, being that this is sub panel, it isn't entirely done incorrectly. If what you are saying is what I understand, all of the equipment grounds are twisted together with the SER cable's grounding conductor. It was very common in the 60's to place them all together under one single lug that was bolted to the side of the panel. Of course, this was also before they realized that copper and aluminum don't mix well.

Now what appears to be more recently-added circuits having their EGC connected to the neutral bar is obviously handyman work. I also don't like what appears to be SEU cable used for the range circuit with the bare concentric neutral connected to the neutral bar. That cable should never have been used, although it appears to be original.

Of course the fact that what appears to be most of the branch circuit cables exiting the top through a single connector is also classic 1960's work. I wouldn't go as far to say that it is dangerous, but certainly not something that would fly these days.

I don't think that this is 1950's work because GE didn't make panels that would support the type THQP (skinny) breakers on the right until much later. I'd venture to say that this panel design is indicative of 1970's design. Of course, the panel could have been changed out at some point along the way.

What I don't understand is how the tandem skinny breakers are spaced that each half of the breaker is spanning different legs. Doesn't that mean that the cover will have a half of each slot not occupied?

Larry C

correct its wide open for the air to cool it down lol and its a genneral electric box they are paired with a bar hope you know what i mean if not just ask and i will try to explain

I date the box mid to late 70s. 1 GE skinny breaker used, 2 branch ckt wiring copper ( al was mostly used 71-74) 3 Al feeder, during the late 70s AL was still used for feeders and big ckts due to the high cost of CU. Due to the fire problems, AL was not used much for branch ckt. 4 The large feeder looks like is has the gray fabric cover, early 80s PVC had replace fabric cover on most all cable.

Maybe it's just my computer monitor, but it looks like there is a TREMENDOUS amount of paint overspray in there. If so, what kind of shape are the breaker busses in?

Mike (mamills)

Larry, that is a GE panel. GE makes their tandem "skinnies" that way, so that you can use them for a 220 circuit, or a MWBC. Indeed, they will not instal in any other position.

Larry:
Yes, there should be two (2) GE 'skinny' blank-ups' in the cover. Or, there are two (2) open spaces in the cover (best bet).

As Reno said, the CB's have to go where they are to hit a&b buss. A good mechanic would have installed two (2) single pole skinnies to fill the buss space; the blank-ups were and still are a PITA

Mike,
Your monitor is working correctly.
The painters have hit town, they don't know "electric" unless their compressor is too big for the temporary, then you'll see the "tools" come out.
As to the shape of the busses, they are a new shade of white, after all bare copper is dangerous, someone might get a shock.

they are holding that's all i can say.

It would take little effort to move those two tandem breakers up and then add another breaker to to fill in the gap.
The panel does appear to have a lot of white paint overspray. The hot wires look like neutral wires! The originally breakers were probably very white before they were thrown away.
Thanks for comments Ed. I don't see the range circuit bare neutral though. Is that the wire that is connected to the side of the largest lug (far left) of the neutral/ground bus? It looks coated, but that could be paint.
The panel feed is from the bottom left. It looks like there is a coated feed wire going to the neutral/ground bus (the big lug on the front row).

But the wires connected to one pair of the tandem breakers feeds a 240 V load. Moving the breakers up a 1/2 space will provide both wires the same phase. The connected device would rather see 240 V instead of 0 V.

Larry C

You're right Larry. If only one of the tandem breakers is for a 240V load, then that tandem could be replaced with a regular two-pole breaker, and then just move the other tandem to fill the last half-slot (hole). If both tandems are for 240V, then that would make four 240V loads in an apartment. I can only think of three common 240V loads, AC, clothes dryer & stove.