DO you need plugs behind bedroom doors?

My boss is killing me with this. I just hate the extra work for a plug I feel is useless.

When I asked him he said something like the 2002 code it wasn't required, but in the 2005 it is? Maybe it was the 1999 code it wasn't but 2002 it is.

Either way whats the verdict on this?

Just to clarify.. I'm talking about the small walls that when the door opens it covers the whole wall.

Not talking larger walls. Just the walls that are over 2' but not any bigger than the door.

210.52 does not offer any relief because of a door swing, If the "small wall" 2 feet wide it gets a receptacle.
Could the inspector miss it? Sure. But if he looks behind the door you will probably be buying some drywall.

Greg:
Well said

John

I agree with Greg as well.


I recommend you adjust your thinking.

Your an electrician, your job is wiring to meet code.

That means code required items are never 'useless'.

My boss wants recpticals behind the doors. His thinking is you will always have a place to plug the vacume cleaner into. Makes sense to me. Rod

I normally put these 3' - 3 1/2' above floor. No point in having to bend over to plug in vacuum.

I don't know how wide the doors are in your town, but the NEC requires residential outlets so that no point along the floor line of the wall is greater than 6 feet from a receptacle. Three 16 inch bays make 4 feet.

Using the following system, you will never have to place one behind the door: Start your measurements from each side of the rough frame openings; within 6 feet install the first receptacle, then space the rest, somewhat equally, so that there is never more than 12 feet between receptacles.

The measurement goes "as the mouse travels around the room". You even have to count that little 3 inch piece directly next to your door frame. Any entry door, fireplace, doorway, closet door openings or the like start the process all over again. But, windows (even floor to ceiling windows) count as wall space. This means the patio door that is half glass and half door can be a problem (the 6 foot measurement will have to start in the middle of the opening for one side). Same story for "pocket doors". The 9 foot wide, three section, door-window-door unit requires a floor box.

Those wall sections that are shorter than 2 feet between door openings are the only ones that escape this rule. Walls that are between 2 and 12 feet in length between doorways can get by with a single receptacle in the center.

You will never have to make the excuse: "Oh, that one is for the vacuum cleaner!" again.

By the way, this rule has been in the NEC for all of my career, which spans over 30 years.

I don't see an exception for closets. Perhaps we need recepts inside of closets also.

One needs to read the code in a rational manner.

I would not require recpts in closets (most of my closets have them) and I would not require recepts where a normally open door would cover the entire wall section.

George "closet" is not one of those rooms listed in 210.52(A) but I still think a receptacle is not a bad idea, particularly if there is a counter in there. That is where my wife plugs in her cell phone and palm chargers.

It is a design decision not a code one.

I suppose we could start the closet in a bedroom thing here too

Ahh ok. I guess the boss is right. That does happen from time to time.

I thought there was a 'Usable wall space' clause... but I just looked and apperently I made that up.

I do have to say I don't recall ever plugging a device into a plug behind a door. Darn code, strikes again.

I would not require recpts in closets (most of my closets have them) and I would not require recepts where a normally open door would cover the entire wall section.

"I would not require recpts in closets (most of my closets have them) and I would not require recepts where a normally open door would cover the entire wall section."

You would not be enforcing code either.

"One needs to read the code in a rational manner."
I like this approach. How many inspectors are rational? Maybe I should word that differently. If everyone read the code in a rational manner, I don't think we would have had the change from useable wall space. Too many people tried taking too many shortcuts and too many inspectors got fed up with arguing about whether there should be one there or not.

The "receptacle behind the door" is the direct result of using the code improperly.

First, let's review what the code actually says.
Code says, in effect, that receptacles be spaced no further than 12 ft. apart, measuring along the baseboard.
Code ALSO says "this is not a design manual."

Nevertheless, the practice has developed where a man will start at the door, measure off 6 ft, place a receptacle.... measure off 12 ft, place a receptacle... and so on, around the room.
Since many bedrooms measure something like 10x12, 12x12, etc., this results in receptacles in the middle of the walls, with the final one behind the door.
Does it meet code? Yes. Does it use the absolute minimum number of receptacles? Yes. Does it result in every receptacle being poorly placed? YES.


That final receptacle can be anywhere within 6 ft of the hinge side of the door. If that places it, say, 2 ft away from the corner, on the meeting wall, that is fine.

It is NOT true that every 2 ft wall needs a receptacle.... it IS true that every 2 ft wall be included in measuring along the baseboard.

I don't agree with you Reno. All wall spaces 2 foot or wider require a receptacle to prevent running a cord across a doorway to plug in something that needs power. That's the way I read 210.52(A)(1),(2). ('02 NEC) If I'm wrong I'm sure I'll be corrected for sure.

I think we just might be having a communications issue here.

I believe John is saying I could start my 6' at this door jamb, measure along the baseboard, turn the corner and place an outlet on this wall still within 6' of the door along the baseboard.

If that is what he means I agree that is OK.

That said personally I like the idea of an easily accessible outlet for general purpose use.

One that is not behind the sofa or entertainment center.

I agree with you Bob. Wall space that extends around the corner of a room unbroken is treated as the same wall space. Whereas if we had a 2 foot wall space between the room door and then it was interrupted by a closet door, that 2 foot wall would get a receptacle even if it where behind the door.

Thanks, Bob and George. I didn't want to spend most of my post going into all the 'ifs, ands, or buts' of the "12 ft. rule." As you rightly pointed out, doors do change things!

I don't have my NEC 2005 to verify (left it at work), but IRC 2003 has an illustration (Fig E3801.2) of a short wall behind a door being explicitely counted as part of the 6' but not requiring a receptacle by itself.

I'm curious- am I the only one who refers to IRC as opposed to NEC when looking for electrical code on simple residential things? In VA at least, NEC is only invoked because it's a reference of IRC/IBC and it's not itself ever called out by law. So, the electrical portion of IRC is every bit as legally binding, and generally nicely condensed.

[This message has been edited by SteveFehr (edited 07-01-2006).]

Steve,

Codes aren't law until adopted by the government that has control of the real estate where the building is located (the AHJ).
The 2003 IRC chapters 33-42 are based on the 2002 NEC (and authored by the same NEC folks). If your AHJ has adopted the 2005 NEC, and you are using the 2003 IRC, then you may be missing some important items.
Are you using the 2006 IRC?, then you are on the same page as the 2005 NEC.

Uggghhhh MEN!! The outlet behind the door is the one used to plug in the vacuum cleaner. This is because all the other outlets are used or are located behind pieces of furniture. I have three bedrooms and the outlet behind the door is always accessible BECAUSE it is behind the door (nothing can be put there because the door wont open otherwise).

Hey--what about that neon been sign on the wall! That's why you need a receptacle on those short wall sections behind doors!

Cliff

Plug the vacuum into the receptacle outlet in the hallway if you have that much furniture. It is never a good idea to have an outlet behind the door, the operation of the door can damage the cord cap. We men never vacuum anyway. We clean with a snow shovel.

Leaf Blower........

Lets call it personal choice I would always want one behind the door.

The door knob will need to punch a hole in the wall beore the cord cap gets damged.

IMO threre is more of chance that furniture aginst the wall will damge the cord cap.

But that is all just personal choice.

Makes sense, maybe all those behind the door for the vacuum outlets should all share a dedicated circuit by themselves. You can only vacuum one room at a time, and it would be good to keep the sparky noisy vacuum cleaner motor away from the computers and TV sets. Place the outlet about 2 feet from the door hinges so you don't have to dig deeply behind the door.

I've had apartments where the apartment's subpanel was placed behind bedroom doors. So tennants couldn't place furnature or bookcases in front of them. So you'd have the required working space for them.

Behind a door is an excellent choice for placing the panel.
I see your point on outlets behind the door. Maybe it is not so bad.
But, I still think one in the hallway would be a wiser choice. My reasoning is that those in the bedroom must be on an AFCI circuit, and therefore they will not be the best choice for some vacuum motors. Arcing and sparking in the motor causes nuisance tripping of the AFCI. Until the manufacturers come up with brushless motors for vacuum cleaners, IMHO, use the outlet in the hall.

Panels behind the doors... funny you should mention that...

Near me is a retirement home, where the building is as old as the residents, and has had as many face-lifts! As you might guess, wiring in this place is an unfathomable puzzle.

There were a few places where no one could find a way to shut off the power. And, there were a few places where there should have been power, but there seemed to be no way to energise those wires.

Then, one day, "Martha" left the home. A kindly older lady, she didn't like feeling "cooped up" in her room, and always had her door wide open. You can see where this tale is going..... sure enough, behind her door (which opened into the hall), there was a panel that no one knew was there! Martha had been at the home longer than any of the staff; with her door always open, none had ever seen the panel.

Looking at my house and my daughter's house ...

There are several 2'-3' wall segments behind or between doors that have no recepts. I have never been in the position of wanting to use the recept that should be there.

I would expect that many AHJ would's accept ommissions on short walls or improper spacing as long as the total number of recepts is correct.

Don't know what year your house was built but a home built today is required to have receptacles on those walls regardless of the homeowner needing or wanting them.


Only if they choose to ignore the job they are hired to do.

There is no 'number of receptacles required', the number required is dependent on the number of wall spaces greater than 24".