i was woundering when you change out a service do you or do your local inspectors require you to bring everything up to code.
in our area NC we are only required based on what we touch.

although when we do a service upgrade we figure on bringing up to code in our price,and install same.
thanks for your input.

Hi Wayne,
Over here in NZ,if an upgrade is performed,
of a consumers mains,(service) it must be fully inspected, tested and certified.
This is the same if a place has been disconnected from the Network, for a period of more than 6 months, we normally have to check out all of the installation and make appropriate changes, so that the installation complies, before it is re-connected.
Normally these are "Do-jobs", they are never quoted for, because of the large number of things that can crop up.

Our poco's are usually the only residential inspectors, who's concern ends @ the main disco.
Most of thier desires follow art 230 of the NEC, so in terms of updating to code that part of the install does.

Service upgrade here requires service is up to code. Thats it. If the inspector sees a safety hazard it is up to him to notify the homeowner that it should be repaired. Some inspectors do like to walk through these old basements barking out the orders "fix this fix that" I ususally just ignore them as they have no authority to force the electrician to fix anything other than the electricians mistakes. If I figured a service to include bringing the house up to code I would be out of business. In this area with the majority of housing being over 35 years old it would be quite an undertaking.

6 months? Here in Austria it's 3 years, and this is new. Same thing applies for gas systems. (municipial power and gas used to be one company, along with public transportation and undertaking (all cemetaries belong to them), and in fact still are. On the paper they're seperate, but 100% owner is still the Wiener Stadtwerke AG, as it has always been)

Here in Chs. SC, not only do they make you bring the house to code for service upgrades, but also for meter/main relocations. This includes the recept. per wall spacing, smoke detectors in all bedrooms (interconnected), dedicated grnd. circuits to kitchen appliances, outside recepts. at front and back of the house, gfi's everywere exc..........
It really makes it impossible for the homeowner to afford. So instead of making any improvement they make none at all. It really seems extreme to me. This rule also applies to services that have been cut for 1 year or more. In commercial upgrades, the only requirements are exit and emergency lights.
John

[This message has been edited by scjohn (edited 10-24-2002).]

John this seems very excessive and extreme and places an unjust burden on homeowners. What is their rationale behind this all or nothng approach?

ahj's in oregon i've dealt with dont call this the same. whenever this comes up i ask the local inspector about the job in question. like you say, the inspectors know if it costs too much that the owners wont do anything at all, so they mostly allow partial upgrades as long as its safe. we never connect existing feeders or SE wires that are undersized or worn, but thats usually not a problem, and we always re-do the GE system

if you think about it, the ones who need the upgrading the most are the ones who cant afford it. pretty tough rule scjohn. do they make you install air bags and anitlock abs brakes in old cars when you do a oil change?

In Georgia it varries by jurisdiction. Some are lax and don't really require any thing, but most require GFI's in the bath and kitchen and hard wired smokes, interconnected if possible(they don't make you tear up the house).

In Minnesota, the higher the population density, the more collateral requirements included with the service size increase in an existing building.

I work mostly in the inner city, where the service size increase includes going over all branch circuits to meet what is basically a VA / FHA Electrical Certification. These are the [b][i]Minneapolis Minimum Electrical Requirements[/i][/b] .

The really helpful language states that the service and branch circuits must be safe and all exposed abandoned or visible hazardous wiring must be removed. The State of MN throws in the smoke detection requirements, along with local fire districts.

thanks guys and gals for the input, never relized it was so much difference in other areas.
I think, look out, i mean its my beleif.
that it should be left up to the electrican primary first and then the owner and followed b the electrical inspector. what do you people think.
wayne

E-Scott, there reasoning is.. heck I dont know what there reasoning is. I never really questioned it. I was mistaken, they dont require the smokes to be interconnected, just 110 with batt. back-up, and they will work with you some. But, I have been known to survey the poco drop, and if it is sufficient, buy a few polarus lugs and just do it myself.
John

When I inspect a job, I just inspect what the electrical contractor is doing. That is all. If I see other violations, I tell the homeowner that they should get it fixed, but I can't force anyone into fixing it. As an elec. cont. I use to put right on my bills, that I saw a violation (or fire hazard) and let the homeowner know that it should be fixed. This way if something should happened later on, I could respond with, "Well I made a note of the violation on my bill. You must have read the bill because you paid me." This way the homeowner couldn't say, "Well you never told me that I had a problem!" It helps to cover your butt this way.