ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Modifying panel to fit main breaker

When I first saw this thread I thought I knew what was going on. I had a Siemens panel with the interior mounted too low a couple of years ago. I see from the photos thias isn't the case. Siemens changed the mains a couple of years ago. It is a completely different set-up as far as the 200A main is concerned. I have a shelf full of the "new" 200A mains I removed from MB loadcenters when I needed a 40ct ML and my rebate made the MB cheaper.I am the only place in my area that stocks the new 200A ITE MB. GE Powerline Gold panels still use the 4 pole 200A main design. GE/Siemens may look the same but I don't like to mix and match CBs in a loadcenter. I have seen my share of Bryant type loadcenters with Challenger, Westinghouse, Bryant, General Switch, GE, Sylvania, Murray and Siemens CBs all mixed in. The true mark of a long succession of handymen.

LOL Celtic! I had a feeling someone would ask about that Actually, it's about 2 months old now and the pain and swelling has long since gone, leaving just a nasty black clot under my nail that's just going to have to grow out, I guess... But if that's the worst injury I got while framing up an entire 2000 square foot addition by myself, I know I should be estatic!

Regarding the neutral jumper, yes, it's factory installed and actually very nice to have dual neutral bars- I can route both the hot and neutral together in the panel and terminate them right beside each other. (Well, more or less, as the neutral bar is shorter than the bus bars). Will also make the AFCIs very clean! I don't like the position of it, I'm going to loosen the bolts and reposition it so it has more clearance off the bus bars- I wouldn't want that insulation to degrade over the years.

[This message has been edited by SteveFehr (edited 07-24-2006).]

Better designs on the jumper?? I like GEs flat bar alot better but thats what I'm used to so...

Take apart the panel that you have installed. Get a connector to fit the PVC coming in the top of the panel. Get a panel that is at least as tall as the siemens you are taking out, you will need this because you have already stripped wires coming from the top and bottom. Main lug or main breaker really dosen’t matter, the overcurrent protection is being provided by the 125A in your main panel, get whatever is cheaper. Make sure the panel you get has long busbars on each side (a full size GE powermark gold mod 6 would be good I think) so your already cut wires will reach. Get some plastic romex connectors, they are easier to work with. Make sure you remove the jumper from the neutral bar to the ground bar, this will make your panel a subpanel. Get some #10 sheetmetal screws, as drywall screws or deck screws aren’t acceptable for mounting a panel where I come from, maybe its ok for you. I would get some 1/0 SER Aluminum to feed that panel but you could use PVC with THHN, I think SER is easier and cheaper. Make sure you secure those homeruns within 12 inches of the panel. If you keep them to the side you could use plastic cable stackers (depending on how many homeruns you have) or you might want to turn a 2x4 sideways and mount it between the two studs to staple to. I would stay away from siemens, replacement breakers are always easier to find for GE or Cutler Hammer or Square D.

Those are some things that you would only know from doing it, but I have to ask as an EE, don’t you spec out what panels to use on jobs. Most sets of prints I see have panel schedules with type of panel (MLO or Main Breaker) listed.

crl22191, this was for my own house; I typically DO specify switchboards at work, but I work only large industrial sites for electronic equipment on military bases (smallest I'm usually involved in is 800A) and we have some unique requirements- one of which is that servicible equipment MUST have a local means of disconnect for safety- which is why I purchased this panel with the intention of putting in a main breaker as a local disconnect. As it turns out, I didn't really need it though, and I installed the panel MLO. I used #1 CU for the feeder, btw- Murray panel on the other end was only rated for 75C. I plugged the MB holes I'd already punched out and didn't need with plastic plugs listed for that purpose.

Where in code is the mounting method for the panel specified? The instructions on this panel made no mention of the listed fasteners or even what holes were to be used, so I just used what was on-hand and logical. It's easy enough to drive in sheet metal screws into the backing 2x4s if those are required vice deck screws.

[This message has been edited by SteveFehr (edited 08-31-2006).]

[This message has been edited by SteveFehr (edited 08-31-2006).]

Steve:
Ahh, this thread is back.........
As to 'mounting' any panel, I am not aware of any NEC prohibition against sheetrock screws, or deck screws.

That said, using a bugle head type screw thru a 'factory' hole with very minimal 'contact', or the possibility of 'pull thru' would result in the panel not being securly fastened.

Pan head screws solve that issue, if it arises.

Others may debate the above, but that is my opinion.

John

I like 1 ¼" #12 screws with the hex head and a washer. Then that puppy ain't going anywhere unless you want it to. The hex makes the driver really work, even if they get old and rusty some day.
The big red masonry anchors work if it is against block or concrete with the same screw.