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Joined: Feb 2002
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Round it goes, where it stops, nobody knows.
I agree with those that cite the need for a code rule and UL documentation. If it is not written, how can a rule be enforced?
BTW, I checked my "box bin" and none of them have "GR" stamped in them, and they are from Steel City, Raco and Thepitt.
Peter
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Joined: Mar 2003
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Read the Articles I put up PLEASE.
250.8
CONNECTION OF GROUNDING AND BONDING EQUIPMENT
Grounding conductors and bonding jumpers shall be connected by (now this is it guys )
exothermic welding (well we:re not going to cadweld to the box) listed pressure connectors(the ones we all hate and think are useless) Now this is it !!!!! L I S T ED Clamps(get that LISTED) or other (here it is again ( L I S T E D) clamps or other L I S T E D means. Notice LISTED listed listed, Are your clamp screws listed ummmmmmmm I THINK NOT! now theres the code section how can you read it any other way. ( by the way I have never said Green screw look back at all my posts) By the way I called ul talked to head electical guy there , He well be bringing this up in a Future issue of electrical contract Maz. Geee I wonder what it well say ??/
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Joined: Nov 2000
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Yoopersup,
First what is the UL listing category for a green screw? I can't find it in the white book. Second, if you insist that this screw must be a listed grounding screw, then we will have no way of attaching larger conductors in other enclosures or to bus bars.
Don
Don(resqcapt19)
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Man your sure stuck on that Green screw ! Like I said DID NOT SAY GREEN did I. As far as to the bar ect Again what are we talking about. A bonding jumper in a Small(not 24x24 not 18 x 18 But a device box , why do you keep going off on gr bars large boxes ect. PLEASE stick to the subject at hand. Never said green Please go back look at all my posts. I am also not saying using the clamp screw hole for a proper gr screw would not be allowed,
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Joined: Nov 2000
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Yoopersup,
Ok, you didn't say green, but you said listed grounding screw. What screws are listed for the connection of EGCs???? Show me the listing category. I keep bringing up larger conductors because you can't have it both ways. If the 10-32 screw used to connect the wire to a small box has to be a listed grounding screw, then the same rule would have to require the use of listed grounding screws or bolts for all grounding connections. These items do not exist.
Don
[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 05-20-2004).]
Don(resqcapt19)
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Joined: Jul 2002
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I'd use a piece of #4 (identified with green tape) and a lug Listed for the conductor material and a bolt and nut. More than likely the bolt, nut and lug won't be green.
To me it all comes back to this. a regular nut and bolt are ok but in a device box it has to be green and/or listed. I think I'm going in to Wesco today and buy a box of 10-32 green screws and see if they are listed ![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/smile.gif)
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Joined: Nov 2000
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To me it all comes back to this. a regular nut and bolt are ok but in a device box it has to be green and/or listed. That is my point, we can't have it both ways. Either all screws and bolts used to connect grounding conductors must be listed, or none of them must be listed. Don
Don(resqcapt19)
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Guys, It appears that I'm wrong on this issue. CMP5 addressed this in the '99ROC. It is still not completely clear as I don't think that the "green" screws are listed devices for grounding and if they are not, then the only choice would be the push-on grounding clip. 5- 42 - (250-8): Reject
SUBMITTER: Don Ganiere, Ottawa, IL
COMMENT ON PROPOSAL NO: 5-71
RECOMMENDATION: The proposal should be accepted in principle. Add new text: " Machine screws and bolts shall be permitted to secure listed pressure connectors and solid conductors ".
SUBSTANTIATION: Machine screws and bolts are used to secure pressure connectors and solid connectors. A machine screw is not a listed means and use of machine screws would be a violation. New wording should be added: "Machine screws and bolts shall be
permitted to secure listed pressure connectors and solid conductors".
PANEL ACTION: Reject.
PANEL STATEMENT: The use of a machine screw to secure a listed pressure connector must be installed in accordance with the
manufacturers. instruction. Section 110-14(a) does not permit the connection of a solid conductor with an ordinary machine screw.
NUMBER OF PANEL MEMBERS ELIGIBLE TO VOTE: 16
VOTE ON PANEL ACTION:
AFFIRMATIVE: 14
NEGATIVE: 2
EXPLANATION OF NEGATIVE:
DOBROWSKY: The comment should be accepted in principle and the proposed additional text revised as follows: "Machine screws identified for the purpose shall be permitted to secure 10 AWG or smaller conductors." This concept is permitted as described in Section 110.14(A). Forming a loop in a 14 AWG through 10 AWG solid conductor and securing it with a screw in compliance with Section 110.14(A) should be acceptable in Section 250.8.
HAMMEL: The comment should be accepted in principle and the proposed additional text revised as follows: "Machine screws identified for the purpose shall be permitted to secure 10AWG or smaller conductors." This concept is permitted as described in Section 110.14(A).
Forming a loop in a 14AWG through 10AWG solid conductor and securing it with a screw in compliance with Section 110.14(A) should be acceptable in Section 250.8.
___________________ Don
Don(resqcapt19)
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"Machine screws identified for the purpose . Wouldn't this mean green screws??
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 558
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Why don't they just come out and say "Green screws"?
Russell
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Lostazhell
Bakersfield, CA (Originally Orange Co.)
Posts: 1,438
Joined: February 2004
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