ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Need opinion

I can not believe that there are so many of you guys who call yourselves Professionals, belong to IAEI, are merit shop workers, are union workers and inspect or install electrical systems that are willing to accept, install, condone or approve the mickey mouse approach of using a screw provided for use with the clamp when securing cables to the box as the means of bonding/grounding the equipment grounding conductor to a metal box. Those of you who are Inspector or associate members of IAEI, turn in your membership card. Those of you who are instructors- quit. Equipment that is designed for the purpose should be used for that purpose. I suspect those of you who approve of using a clamp screw for a ground screw have never been in a court of law and had the attorney ask pointed questions and have to come up with legitimate answers. I know it sounds like a minor thing and I now wish I would't have brought this subject up but I did and I've learn there are a lot of shoddy "professionals" out there that don't have any pride in our trade.

George to shorten your post up, your main point is you where trained a certain way and anyone that does things within code but not the same as you is unprofessional and produces shoddy work.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, I will continue to use any method that is code compliant.

You show me where the code will not allow any screw to be used to land a grounding conductor (other than a sheet metal screw)

Or show me any evidence that the clamp screw provides a less secure connection and I might begin to care what you think is right or wrong.

Bob

George,

Your question here is if there is any code rule against it. Opinions don't change the facts. If you're reading the responses here as recommendations I think you've missed the point.

Bill

250.8 250.8 250.8

If you guys look back at the posts I;ve put theres books I;ve shown where it says exactly what George is saying. One and Two family Dwellings 5th Edition By the I.A.E.I. page 161 ,Has anyone read it , I know thats only an opinion BUT its the Opinion of the Electrical Inspectors Association, I was Inspector for over 20 yrs. Each Inspector has to make his own call But I always used Books like thoses from the I.A.E.I. to back my rulings otherswise like you said Its then only one mans opinion

Yoopersup: I'm glad that you wrote that...thanks.

This thread and a few others have bounced around and seemingly jumbled a few different points. For what it's worth I agree that a Green Grounding screw with its wider head seems more suitable for attaching a wire to the box than a smaller-headed clamp screw.

With that aside, Re: 250.8:

I have a question... If 250.8 means to say only specific listed 'grounding Screws' must be used why does it bother to say "Sheet metal screws shall not be used to connect grounding conductors to enclosures" ??

Bill

An off the wall observation or view.

If we are using EMT as the EGC per 250.118 and use steel set screw fittings, should the manufacturer offer a green screw for this application?

OK, I'm glad I'm not on a stage right now with all of you as the audience holding tomatoes.

Roger

yoopersup, It's odd that you having been an inspector for 20 years would not stick with the code and use other books to make your rulings. How many jobs have you failed in your time for things like this and had no code ruling to back yourself up?

Thanks guys and Yupersup, I know what you are referring to in the IAEI 1 & 2 Family book. I don't have the 5th edition but I have the 4th edition and I'm sure the message hasn't changed. Another IAEI member called this to my attention and I looked it up. I've been an electrical inspector for 20 years and wore the tools prior to that. I'm a Past President of the Michigan Chapter IAEI and I strongly support as do most inspectors, the high standards the organization is known for offering.

Devil's Advocate here ...

250.8 does say that "Grounding conductors and bonding jumpers shall be connected by exothermic welding, listed pressure connectors, listed clamps, or other listed means"

If this means that a listed screw must be used then other types of installations (ie that require connection of a lug) may have no code compliant solution.

Bill