ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Quality of conduit cuts

DO NOT do this if there is any possibility of an OSHA visit to the job.

Repairing / Painting / Modifying a ladder in any way can result in fines.

You should see our company dumpster and all the cut up ladders. Anything at all wrong with the ladder and it ends up cut up and thrown out.

Dave 55 -- thank you for your encouragement. I need it.
Iwire and others,
This is more difficult. I have always believed in doing the best job I am capable of. My way might take an additional one minute apiece for a total of five pieces. What is the value of an extra minute over a live span of the project of 20~30 years?
And what is the cost if a poorly deburred cut eventually scraps through the insulation of those 3/0 cables sometime in the future? I do not like falling victim to the lure of the Almighty Penny.
As for support during the cut, another dodge is to pass the conduit through the smaller opening in the web of the bender and wedge it on the floor, tripod style.
Someone mentioned rejecting cut which aren't square. But sloppy cuts are probably acceptable as long as there ore no burrs and it's not so bad that the integrity of the connection is compromised. After all, the inspector does not inspect this. You only have your pride to live up to.
I must admit that I have a disadvantage in this field since I come from a background in maintenance. One problem is that you have to deal with the shortcomings of construction short cuts. Another is there is less emphasis on speed but rather reliability.
~Peter

Peter,

Send me an E-mail regarding this topic and your work experience.

Thx.

Scott35

Peter,

I picked up this trade in the Marines, where if you fell asleep in theory classes by the most boring man on earth, you stood at attention with a bucket of water on your head. And later in the feild, I had a Warrent Officer who would have you do 100 push-ups for every degree of bend you were off.

That said, I have also in my early days been laid off by a hard ended boss once who finished with, "You do fantastic work, just wish you did more of it." And after running guys myself for a while now, I can accept that. It bothered me at the time, but he did drop me off at another job-site to get on another crew that needed me.

I have also walked off jobs because "I don't know how to do hack work!"

Theres a fine line for most employers, and finding that line is key to a healthy relationship. I have had guys that I make do things over, not just because I didn't like it, but our customers would find it unacceptable as well. (Mostly designers - in their showrooms.) I have also had guys that take too long for stuff and I have to "move" them. I have to stand there and drive them to do things faster. But I start out by giving them ways of doing it faster.

I have worked for a lot of different people, and all expect different things. Sometimes its hard to find that balance.

For you: And it is obvious you take pride in your work. But believe it or not those pennies and dimes do matter, it is really competitive out there, so working speed does too. See if you can find that quanity/quality balance on the next job. It may take an investment in a band saw, you'll be happy with the cut, and the boss will be happy with the speed. Then again, he should provide one for you... IMO

Peter I feel I may run long here but I want you to know where I am coming from with my statements.

First can I ask you to read e57's (Mark') comments again. I think he has some great information in that post.



I have no doubt of that and many companies will be grateful for that commitment.


Pete there is no 'might' about it, your way does take longer. As a boss I am not worried about 5 pieces, I have to worry about 100s to 1000s of repetitive activities.

If the other guys do it 15 seconds and you do it in 60 seconds your production will be 1/4 of the other guys. This applies if its a 5 minute or 5 month project. It is not pennies we are counting it adds up quickly.


Pete unfortunately there is little value (other than pride) in it if both ways last the same amount of time.


A lot, no doubt about it.

This is where, in my opinion part of a craftsman's skill is knowing what is necessary over what looks pretty.

Believe me I do not want call backs for anything.

I am working a job now that having a worker like you would make me happy. We have thousands of shielded MC terminations to make. Without careful attention you can ground fault the shield which will have to be located and repaired. This is a case where I will gladly let you have the time to make a fault free connection.


Do any of us, but it is a fact of life.

I doubt you have had a chance to learn some of what goes on before any workers see the job site.

Someone has a grand vision of a great new building with every convenience. Plans are drawn and put out to bid. These plans often show the electrical as a 'pipe job' no MC, custom lighting fixtures, all kinds of fancy building automation controls etc.

Then the bids come back and reality sinks in. They can not pay for the job, cuts must be made. What are you going to cut? The nice looking lobby furnishings or the unseen electrical work?

Short story the project gets 'value engineering' our price keeps dropping to the point we are taking the base bid for peanuts and hope to make up the loss with extras.

Pete you know we have done some of the large home improvement stores, these are a perfect example of a job that has no money in it to make the electrical 'pretty'.

They supply almost all the stock for the job including the big ticket items like lighting and switchgear.

This means we do not make much on materials.

So now we have to make money on just the labor, but wait they build tons of stores they know how many hours it takes per sq ft better than the EC does.

To make money at this type of job you will pretty much have to do it faster than any other EC before you.

There will be no meaningful extras on this type of job, they know what they want when the prints go out.


Pete I do not want anyone to make sloppy cuts. I want people that are willing to adapt to different methods. With practice good cuts can be made without all the steps you describe.

Think of it like bending pipe, with practice you can make great offsets without measuring.


The inspectors look at darn little of what we do, I work like they will take it apart. Pride in my work keeps me coming in. I can be proud that I provided a quality job and did it quickly and efficiently.


Your right it is a different world, I have done both also.

We pay much more than a maintenance job, we also provide you with the right tools, safety equipment and stay after the GC to provide a safe work enviorment. For this we expect you to go home tired sore and dirty. You will drive to the job site and work 7hrs 40min every day to get paid for your eight.


True and sometimes those short cuts where the fault of the contractors, just as likely the short cuts where cost cutting measures by the person footing the bill.

Some people are happy with a KIA others want a Mercedes. There is no shame in providing a KIA to those that want one.

Bob

Well said Bob.

The thing I looked at first when I was inspecting was consistancy. If I saw some very pretty work next to some less so I assumed there were different standards on all of the work. It makes you look harder to be sure the grounds are made up correctly and the wires were sized right. Ugly work can still be code compliant but if it is inconsistant I assume they probably forgot things.

My first year as an EC, I called my mentor and asked why inspectors didn't look deeper at my work. He told me to take it as a compliment. If they don't like what they see, they will look deeper.

Dave

When starting for a new company you should try to get a feel or even ask what they want. Percision or speed. It does not have to be one or the other but there is some trade off. The same could be said about the quality of bends. If work has been done look around to size up the quality.

If others are doing the same work try to keep the same speed or better.

If your cutting big pipe ask if they have a power tool to cut it. Let them decide what you use. An experianced piping electrician should be able to cut tubing reasonable with any of the common power tools.

The key is to give your boss what they want. If you don't like their standards still give them what they want while you look for another job. Then you would have a better reputation when leaving the company.

Also if the work is exposed and not high up then the company may want more perfection.

Tom

Go to www.nema.org and search for the installation of ..... and you will be surprised when you find and download their "free" standards, even the most seasoned mechanics will learn something too.

I believe that the cuts should be "straight and square" this is what most fittings will be designed for when metal tubing and conduit is used.