ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Qualifications?

bordew,

A county by me has a competency exam for consumers filing as doing their own work. Perhaps something as simple as that (and a copy being sent to their ins. co.) would help cut down on the illegal work.

Question: does anyone know if Insurance companies view situations (who did the work) any differently with regards to rates paid or paying out claims? If they don't, maybe that's part of the problem too.

Bill

Frank,
What does Pittsburgh require.
Some of the local towns are beginning to have testing around here(Philly), and some have NO licensing at all. What about suburban Pitt?


[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 10-06-2001).]

The problem as I see it is that the inspector has to catch the guy and pursue prosecution, leastwise, in my county. Its not fair to the guy who plays by the rules, pays all the insurance, bonds, licenses, certificates,and then the customer says, well your to expensive, and John Fosdick Electric who is not licensed, can do the job for a buck and a half less, but John doesnt have to have a Million dollars worth of insurance either, this was required this year. In my area, you can always tell when an illegal does a 100 amp service, they use split-bolts to make their hot-taps, and of course there is never an inspection sticker on it and the split-bolts stay, Ohio EDison uses crimp connectors in this area after the job is called in.
But sometimes it comes back to bite them in the butt, the illegal uses copper service conductors and splice to the tri-plex, which is aluminum, I got a service call on one of these, one leg was missing to the house checked everything and got to the meter, had to call OE and let them know that I was cutting their seal, and had only 120 at the meter base. got out the ladder, climbed up and opened the taps and you wouldnt believe the corrosion on those bugs, so sometimes we get even but not often.

California passed state licencing requirements a few years ago and has yet to implement them. The word I am getting is the ABC has it tied up in litigation. The way it is to be enforced is by the inspectors. Motivation? Revenue from the fines. I feel it will be as bordew has described. Inspectors will not have time to play policeman and the abuse will be almost as bad as the prevailing wage abuse.

Ne. already has a state license program. The state electrical act provides for both criminal and adminastrative punishments for working without a license, not getting permits,etc.
Maybe when the DAs get off thier rear ends and actually get convictions joe jerkoff the fly by nite electrician will become a rarer breed. Untill then we still see the crappy work. Have yet to see any action by DAs or Judges.

Redsy,

To answer your question, Pittsburgh requires one to pass a written examination. Before you can sit for the examination proof of two years of Technicnal School must be presented. A legal document showing that you worked under a Registered Electrical Contractor must also be presented before you can sit for exam. You have to score a minimum of 75% on examination before a license is issued.

Frank

On the flip side of the CA situation, I'm under the impression that the IBEW is holding up the licensing procedure.
It seems that they don't want the powers that be to accept any type of education except for their own.

I'd hate to think that after 32 years in this trade, I'm not qualified to put in a light switch.
(I'm not anti-union, just non-union)

There point is this, they believe that anyone can pass a written test, in fact there are cclasses out there now that do nothing but go over old state tests, just to help people pass the state test, they are a two day seminar, and alot of guys are taking them just to pass the test, it is rigourous, but with proper study can be passed. So someone without a lick of training, can become a State Certified Electrical Contractor, after they pass the test, then it is up to the inspectors to teach these people in proper technique, as if the inspectors dont have enough to do, and I have seen this happen, this is the Unions main concern, Residential is not as much of concern as Commercial and Industrial.. As an example, I looked at a job and it was an old 60 amp service, with a 100 amp disconnect inside the building, but instead of fuses in the disconnect there were, two pieces of No.10 awg cut to length and fitted into the fuse clips. From the disco. to the panel a 3 conductor was run to an old-used FPE panel, the disco was not grounded to the water line and there were no ground rods. The job had to be done over and the customer had to pay twice. This set-up would have been Nirvana to a DIYer, but it was done by a State certified contractor. The State controlling every aspect of our lives is not a panecea, to safty and good practice.

I am not trying to be a naysayer, but I have only seen one instance where someone has actually gotten fined.
This was a case, where a young couple bought the plans for a new home, and wound up hiring a contractor from pennsylvannia. That was mistake no. 1, Mistake no.2 was she was told to pull all the permits. She had to sign a document that she was doing all the work. the house got built, and approaved, but when the Electrical Inspector went out, and when he was done he had 2 and 1/2 pages of violations, it took about that long to correct the violations. In our county, Trumbull, there is a fine and 6 monthes in jail for this, she got fined 500.00 for her effort, the GC got paid and she had two electrical construction bills to pay, the other elecctrical contractor, who knows he is still working going along and singing his song, first they didnt know our local codes, and following the NEC for the rest of the wiring must have been a new idea for this group.
I am not against State Licensing, but there has to be a window in which to work otherwise the system is defeated before we start. One Contractor I know still has and uses a '90 Code Book. Well what about all the changes, well he says, I learn them as I go along. So as to date hes behing by 4 cycles. So go figure.

The Master Electrician written examination I took was very difficult. I struggled with it. It consisted of much theory, calculations and National Electrical Code questions. There were even some basic "business" questions. I hope I never have to take an exam like that one again. I don't think I would pass. Field experience helped me. I couldn't imagine a person without field experience taking the exam well. Let's not minimize the importance and significance of a comprehensive written examination.