ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area To permit or not to permit

OK, a wide geographical area seems to be covered. Eagle is on the west coast, LK & me are on the east side, & I think John S is in the southwest.

Here in NJ:
"Repairs" do not require a permit. "Repairs" mean replacement of "like for like" basically.

Permits go to homeowners of single family homes that they live in, and can only be "assisted" by a relative that resides within the same home. (The ideal situation)
Capability is a judgement call (gamble) by the AHJ that is doing the Plan review and Permit Approval. It is a very time consuming task doing HO, self, owner, etc permits.

Working without can get a max $2000 fine, per trade. Usually I issue $500, unless it's a previous offender. The State frowns on unlicensed "sparkies" and the fine, if caught can be $5 to 10K, and a snowballs chance in hell of applying or getting a lic.

Now, does everyone get a permit, for everything that requires one, all the time??

Personally, I think that anyone who says "yes" may be telling a tall tale. That is my opinion, and not directed at anyone.

BTW, for those that do not know me, I'm a PT AHJ, and also an EC in NJ.

John

It's tough when you are doing residential remodel type work. Adding the cost of a permit can cost you the job on most of the stuff HO's are asking for. Jobs like spa circuits, circuits to a shed, circuits in a garage, etc.

The majority of my work is in Riverside County, CA, and in the city of Corona, permits are required for new circuits and up. Not for items like cutting in interior light fixtures.

In Nebraska only work involving the main service requires a permit.

Municipalities within the state may have their own rules.

In the city that I do most of my work in If the job is more than $500.00 or requires a change in the service then a permit is required. Electrical permits are pulled by the electrical contractor on all jobs except those in which the home owner does the work him/her self. If someone else does the work a permit by an EC is required.
Outside the city Nebraska is as GJ said.
Across the river in IA if outside a city anyone can do what they want and hope the power company will hook them up.

Royta:
IF the costs of a permit seem excessive, or a burden....think about how much of a "burden" a $2000 fine for working WITHOUT the permit would be to you!!

A sincere 1st time offender may get a reduction to $250-$500 for a "good reason", but a licensed EC should know better.

You may have a different set of rules where you are, but here in NJ it's the "way".

John

John,

As an EC both you and I know that "YES" we should get permits for every job that we do and "NO" we don't always get permits. When the job was "closed wall" construction and there was nothing for an AHJ to look at most EC's would not pull a permit. After all what could the AHJ see? You know that the AHJ is not going to take things apart to see if all was wired right. Most times when there was a service change, new basements, new additions, andy kind of pool or spa wiring, any commercial etc. we would pull the permits. However if a homeowner wanted a couple of new lights or outlets most times most EC's would not pull the permit.

I have learned that the people most sensitive to this subject are usually the ones who do not pull permits.
Also as varied the areas the different posters are from, so are the requirements.
I like what John and Harold both said, as I fully agree.

In NY State, there are jurisdictions that do require licenses, and others that don't.
Requirements for inspection include work that is new, such as additions, adding a circuit, etc... Replacing a fixture, switch or receptacle falls under maintenance and does not require a permit or licensed electrician.

Some people will say things that are from the hip, or not necessarily true - but 'knowing' the laws are more important than shooting from the hip.
Here is the requirement for all of NY State, except for NYC. (for any residential work performed)

"R101.2 Scope. The provisions of this code shall apply to the construction, alteration, movement, enlargement, replacement, repair, equipment, use and occupancy, location, removal and demolition of one-and two- family dwellings and multiple single-family dwellings (townhouses) not more than three stories in height with a separate means of egress and their accessory structures and one-family dwellings converted to a bed and breakfast."

It still staggers my mind that in an industry that is so important as ours, that there are so few regulations in large portions of our great country!!

Pierre

Pierre wrote

"It still staggers my mind that in an industry that is so important as ours, that there are so few regulations in large portions of our great country!!"

To that I add AMEN!

Harold.....you are so right! People who live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones; those who choose to work without permits, do so of their own free valition.

'Nuff said.

John

I think some are missing the reason for inspections.
In areas where there is code inforcement, there is a better underwriter rating, then in areas not inforced, without inspections we would be paying much higher rates for insurance coverage.
If you are in an area that requires a permit for work, this means that the goverment in that city has agreed to inforce the code by law, and the insurance underwriters look at this city as a better risk for insuring property there.
Now, if you fail to obtain a permit, for work done on one of these risk rated properties, then if anything happens to that property, and it does not have to be connected with the work you have done, you may end up assuming the liability of loss.
Not something i would want to do.