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Joined: Sep 2003
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The provincial government up here axed our "compulsory certification" requirement for trades just over a year ago. So far its made no difference. They have yet to create an alternative system. The existing 4-year apprenticeship model and "Red Seal" certification continues. The talk seems to be that the smaller outfits and builders used 'helpers' anyway back when indentured apprentices were mandatory; so no change there. The larger companies value the skills that properly educated apprentices bring to the job, so they are continuing to endorse the existing apprenticeship model. Even a sudden blitz of cheap labour will fizzle out with the shoddy workmanship. How many "greenies" would you want to babysit and take responsibility for? Suddenly the certified guy is in high demand. Seems cyclic to me. Skill will prevail. IMO, the trade stands by itself, - it doesn't need a legislative crutch. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/wink.gif)
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Joined: May 2003
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frankg, That is an excellent question! The way it is written, (the law that is) it is very "General" about the General Journeyman classification. That is to say very broad about what one can do. If read the the way it written.... Someone in the "General" classification can do anything covered in the NEC. Yet makes no mention of Fire/Life Safety or anything like that. And the Fire/Life Safety Technichian, can only work within Art. 760? (Not that the article has anything to do with the design or implimentation of fire alarm systems, just the cabling of them, for the most part.) And like the other three classification, are very limited. But this only applies to persons working under a contractor with a C-10 license. Which is also broadly defined.
C-10 Electrical Contractor
An electrical contractor places, installs, erects or connects any electrical wires, fixtures, appliances, apparatus, raceways conduits, solar photovoltaic cells or any part thereof, which generate, transmit, transform or utilize electrical energy in any form or for any purpose."
ยง290.1. Definitions
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(a) A General Electrician is one who performs work for an electrical contractor installing, constructing or maintaining any electrical system that is covered by the National Electric Code.
(b) A Residential Electrician is one who:
(1) performs work for an electrical contractor installing, constructing, or maintaining any electrical system that is covered by the National Electrical Code in single family homes and multi family units, including hotels and motels, where the primary occupancy of the building is considered residential and the maximum voltage received from a utility company is a 3 phase, 4 wire, 120/208 or 120/240 volts.
(2) performs work installing the required panel boards and feeders for commercial tenant space in a multi-family/multi-use occupancies falling under subsection (b)(1) above, where less than 50 percent of the first floor level is used for commercial tenant space, but not performing any tenant improvement for these spaces.
(3) does not perform work in occupancies that fall under the scope of Article 517 of the National Electrical Code.
(c) Voice Data Video Technician is one who performs work for an electrical contractor installing, constructing or maintaining any system that falls within the scope of National Electrical Code, Articles 725, 770 (non-composite cables only), 800 (non-hybrid cables only), 810 and 820.
(d) Fire/Life Safety Technician is one who performs work for an electrical contractor involving the installation, construction or maintenance of systems as covered in Article 760 of the National Electrical Code.
(e) Nonresidential Lighting Technician is one who performs work for an electrical contractor repairing, servicing and maintaining existing nonresidential lighting fixtures and installing retrofit upgrade fixtures. Such work does not include the installation of branch circuits or the alteration of existing branch circuits except a technician may reconnect to existing power within 3 feet.
So what does it mean.... The Fire Alarm guy can't run his own conduit, because it is covered in chapter 3? ![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/biggrin.gif)
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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Joined: Nov 2004
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electure,
I sent my application in on 2/10/04 and received my eligibility notice on 3/04/04.
I scheduled my exam with Experior in October 2004 with one weeks notice.
Frank
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Dave55
I work with a lot of good Technicians who are "Mexican" out her in California.
I don't think six months will make a big difference, considering our economy.
The bottom line is that C-10 contractors need to hire Certified Electricians. If they are not certified by the deadlines they will be required to enter an apprenticeship program.
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Joined: Nov 2004
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To: sandsnow
I like the part of your response that "I didn't have to take but I wanted to."
I am in the same boat, I work on Fire/Life Safety Systems for a University whom does not and not required to have C-10 License. I chose to be certified to know what the requirements were for contractors working on and installing Fire/Life Safety systems on campus.
frankg
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Joined: Nov 2004
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e57:
Thanks for your detailed reply to my question. First I would like to comment on your Post on 11-02 regarding the CSLB or the DAS. I don't agree the CSLB is the answer. Think about it, once a person passes the test they can have or be a part of 3 licences with no further accountability as to their knowledge current codes.
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Joined: Nov 2004
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e57:
As far as my original question, after 4 emails to the DAS I received a response from the acting chief of the DAS.
She stated "The DAS is meeting with the advisory committee and the firm that developed the tests to clarify this issue"
"As soon as the DAS has a definitive answer, DAS will notify you and the public".
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Joined: May 2003
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frankg, Think about it, once a person passes the test they can have or be a part of 3 licences with no further accountability as to their knowledge current codes. This testing only applies to employees of C-10's, otherwise useless to other contractor classifications. And, there are some more things for the DAS to figure out. The law requires proof of continuing edjucation for renewal every three years. It's still up in the air about where that edjucation will be accepted from, as "Approved Curriculum" is still being developed. And there has been much debate over where that "Approved Curriculum" can be taught. Community Colleges, and the like, I believe are still trying to be able to do it. (a) The certificate shall be renewed every three (3) years. To be eligible for renewal an applicant must provide proof under penalty of perjury of 32 hours further electrical education relevant to the type of certification, and must certify under penalty of perjury that he or she has worked in the industry 2000 hours within the previous three years. An individual who allows certification to lapse shall be required to retake the certification exam. As far as licensed C-10's not staying up to date on current codes, they would have a hard time getting through inspections would they not? And, I think it is safe to say most here are very well up to date. Oh, frankg, they actually answered an e-mail? (about 100) I never got any responce that way, and only recently did I get someone on the phone. [This message has been edited by e57 (edited 11-30-2004).]
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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Joined: Nov 2004
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e57, My point was that once a "person" passes the CSLB exam he/she can be the RMO/RME/ on 3 licenses as long as they state they meet the CSLB's requirements and pay the license $$$$. I have seen this policy abused. An example is a person passing the C-10 exam can own his own company, can be an employee of a company for their license and can have a partnership, therfore 3 C-10 licenses with no accountability.
As far as the renewal requirements, I agree that workers need to stay educated with today's technology.
"As far as licensed C-10's not staying up to date on current codes" I totally agree but who gets through the inspections? It's ussually not the CSLB C-10 holder, it's the person in the field, be it a foreman/worker.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11
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e57, To continue, I would just like to close on a positive note and that I believe certification for workers performing this type of work is a good thing and as an example invite you to visit www.nicet.org to review their policy's on renewal's and continuing education. As far receiving e-mails from them, I have been very successful. Looking forward to further "posts" fgardner
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Posts: 75
Joined: June 2012
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