ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Is It Safe?

Anybody watch Seinfeld? Just curious
There also seems to be a "Duty to Assist"

I don't know about other areas, but this is from Minnesota, I don't know if it was enacted or not:

So if I see that a wire is about to burn someone's house down, I am require to cut off their electric and call the police?

Don't know,
I'm just theorizing about possible arguments that may come up.

What if you, a Professional, happen to see a hazard in a very acessible location but do not correct it, can you be held liable somehow if something happens?

Now, the reasons for not correcting it could be many, does it matter? You didn't tell them, You did tell them, but they don't want to spend the money right now, etc. What if it only required some time? What do you do?
How bad is it really? Can you always tell?

I'm not expecting answers to these questions, just tossing them out there as food for thought on some arguments that could come up.

I wasn't really expecting an answer to my question either.

As much as it violates my conscience, I don't think I have a right to help a person in danger if that person doesn't want my help.

"Child and Youth Services. How may I direct you call?"
"Hello, I want to report a house with children in it that might burn down."
"How is this?"
"Their fuse box is full of 30 A fuses and Lincoln busts. They are running two window air conditioners. I got a reading of 200 degrees in the basement on the wires. Who knows how hot they get behind the walls! Oh, and I want this to be an anonymous report, please... I'm an electrician and it would be bad for business if people heard that I called CYS on a customer."

It is the ultimate 'What If' Q....

i don't think we as a trade could easily be held to any standards of liabilty, there are too many variables.
i do think that an ethical tradesman should voice his/her concerns.

But if it burned to the ground with fatalities and you were at their house the day before working on the panel, or had reason to open it, you would likely be involved in some legal matters.

Your example does sound a bit "out there" but I think that in some areas you can report violations and they will be investigated, especially where children or others that can not help themselves are involved.

I just think it's a very difficult situation to be in. If I saw something really wrong where I was working and it was easy to lessen the danger I would do it no matter what.

Example: Live wires exposed - I Cap them
But now, can I be liable somehow for not doing it totally legit? (putting them in a box w/cover?) Does anyone know?

>Your example does sound a bit "out there"
Well, actually it was not embellished very much.... but I don't feel up to having the actions that I took in this case scrutinized.

>but I think that in some areas you can report violations and they will be investigated,
But alas, I can't report them anonymously.
Afterall, who could know but the electrician who was just there trying to squeeze out more work?


Sure I regularly put on or replace cover plates and I am especially concerned when I see small children near something dangerous.


Yes, I would have a problem with just putting a wire nut on a live wire. I would say that it has to go in a box, or be disconnected and removed. If I just put a nut on it, someone might think, well, the electrician was here and he made it safe now. Then I get sued because some kid got the wire nut off and got burnt.

At least it takes a screwdriver to remove a wall plate.

No doubt about it, this area is a can of worms (with teeth).

Anybody know a lawyer who would be willing to make some general comments?

Personally, keep your hands off, notify the customer, if they refuse to fix it, make sure you note it on their invoice so there will be a record that at least you notified them. Don't know what I'd do if there was a housefull of kids involved, hope I'm never in that position.

I do a lot of biz for slum owners. this is not a part of my biz that i would brag about. it's usually a lot of service calls for generic boo-boo's.

I see a lot of bad news, hanging wires, flying splices, oversized fuses and breakers, open junctions, critter damage, unplated devices, you name it.

Any one of these hazards could be lethal given the right circumstances. Many times i do speak up, but nothing is done. After a while you realize that there are certian individuals that will hear only what they want to.

To make matters worse, there are hords of 'home inspectors' without so much as a dale-carnigee certification who will walk right past potential time bombs , only to have a tradesman fix the ol' standard 2 wires on a breaker deal.

I'm tired of going toe to toe with those
ham heads....

You see it gets political, and i was coincidentially talking to VT's chief inspector about such matters today.

Yes i like to point out saftey issues, but if the powers that be do not care to, don't lay it on our shoulders as a trade to do so.

I'll pass the cryin' towel now.....NEXT!

Sounds familiar... Say, have you ever seen like perhaps two window air conditioners running off extension cords with the U grounds broken off or anything like that? Just wondering...