ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Legal Question

If you provided X number of hours work for X number of hours pay, the agreement made is completed and your responsibility is too.

ML — "claiming I will be sued if I don't..." Has the attorney put that threat in writing for you?

No, no written threat.

However, my former employer called me and asked me to return his call. He didn't even wait 24 hours, the next night he gave his attorney my home phone # and had the attorney call my home. The attorney left a message. He didn't say what it was regarding, but did say that (employer) asked him to call, and said it was 'extremely important' that I call him the next day. He said it in that 'bill collector' tone of voice that makes it seem like I better call or else.

Well, I am two things...I am very 'not push aroundable', and I am very literate and good with the written word.

I called the ex-employer immediately, told him off for sicking the lawyer on me, and told him I would take care of his lawyer too. I then typed up this excellent letter; you would swear a lawyer wrote it (I should post it here for your enjoyment), instructing him to cease and desist any communications with me, or it would constitute harrassment. I also explained my position, and how all of his problems he has caused on his own.

Then, just to add insult to injury, since I have a personal relationship with the building owner (the project we were building) I informed him that I would do whatever I needed to do to help the client, but would completely sidestep him (employer) in the process.

MONOLITH:
Be careful! Your last statement that you would help the client and by-pass the EC could, legal wise, place you in a world of hurt.

Rowdy

Probably true.

What a mess. In my 20 years in the trade I've never seen a situation like this.

I am going to try to negotiate things so everyone can get some of what they want. I will get my IRA money, former employer will get his as-builts, and building owner can get rid of all of us.

I would just ignore the whole thing. They don't want a law suit any more than you do. And I can't see where they'd have a leg to stand on anyway. Most problems, if ignored just go away on their own.

Yes, be careful with ANY communications with the building owner. Even if you brought this work to this EC, it is now, his client, and any acoomunications or offers o good faith could be constued as actionable. Problem is, that YOU have to pay to defend yourself if an action is placed against you; irrespective of your guilt or inocence.

You should pursue your missing 401K contrbutions. May I ask, are these both your contributions AND his matching, [if any]? That is YOUR money, just as much as what appears on your check. It is hard earned. If he is "stealing" from you in that manner, it would, in my book speak volumes to the esteem and worth which he holds you in.

Remember too that employment is a contract that places responsibility on both parties. You perform a prescribed work practice, by showing up on time, doing what you are supposed to in a timely and competent fashion for the EC, and accurately post your time for compensation AS AGREED UPON at the begining of employment. Your employer must provide you with a safe place to work, proper tooling and support by wich you must complete this work in his interest, and compensate you in a timely manner as, again, you both agreed to at the start of employment. If that includes insurance, and 401K, it's just as important as the dollars on the check. What would happen if you got sick or hurt and found out insurance coverage he provides has lapsed due to lack of payment of the premiums?

Since I'm a union member, I have some protections afforded me, but this isn't a soapbox for that. This is an area where they actually do some good, but now YOU must be your own union; an advocate for you!

If you had screwed up, the EC would probably think very little of discharging you on the spot. It sounds like you have swallowed enough crap in dealing with this incompetence already. You said it yourself: [quote]" I...resigned from a company, due to it's many flaws, from inept management and self destructive business decisions,to major improprieties, such as illegally withholding employees IRA contributions, etc." You were a paid hourly empoyee, without a written employment contract, it would appear.

Walk away, keep walking, do not do any as-builts, do not do any work as a sub-contractor as that can expose you to other liabilites for which you may not insured, such as errors and omissions as well as professional liability, and licensing issues depending on your licensing and state requirements. Keep walking to your department of labor and get your $$. Face it, you were not alone : [quote]I left the project (as well as several other employees and the Project manager)about 6 to 8 weeks from the end of the job.

You might counter to the EC that if you are called into court, you will be countersuing him for replacement wages or time lost, as well as YOUR lawyer fees. Ask an attorney if you can place a lien on this building and any others that you worked on for your 401K payments that are missing. But now I'm just getting angry.

[This message has been edited by US Coreman (edited 05-28-2003).]

There may also be a larger entity interested in this EC's money concerns if he has neglected to make the contributions to your IRA, either your contributions or his matching. The IRS would likely be very interested in verifying that IRA contributions did indeed get deposited if he claimed that they were made as that is likely reflected as a cost/expense on his balance sheet. If he did not in fact deposit them, he would have had to pay tax on them or justify the existence somewhere of this 'extra' money in his possession.

Just to clarify my statement, my intent to assist the owner (instead of employer) wasn't quite meant the way it sounded in my post. It wasn't my intent to provide the owner with something I was supposed to provide the employer (from a legal standpoint), it was more one of those "If a breaker trips and you can't find it, call me, I'm right up the street".

I am going to try to 'repair' the bridge, by offering, again, my assistance to the employer. All I ask beforehand is that he make the proper contributions to my IRA (retroactive), and temporarily rehire me (hourly, to limit my legal responsibility) for a reasonable rate.

Thanks again for all the replys.

That sounds like a plan.

Make an agreement with your former employer that you will draw the As-Builts for this job, using what information you have now, and if they want to give you further info, add it too
Draw the As-Builts and plot out a few sets - keep a set for your own personal records.
Place disclaimer text on the plans which states your not responsible for any crazy claims from your former employer, nor were you involved with Engineering this project - only documenting the work as it was installed between X date and X date, plus note your references of using other person's data from this project (if things have changed enough to need this).

Figure an appropriate bid price for your work and overhead, then propose this to the old employer.

Make stipulations that only when you receive payment for your work and / or past owed monies, will they receive hard copy sets.
If they also request planset copy on disk, be sure to make a copy for your own records.
Print out the "DOS Properties" of the CAD file, which include all dates for new creation, modification and last accessed - along with file size.

I mention all this just so you do not get caught with your pants down in the middle of a legal issue and finger pointing frenzy. These items will give you plenty of ammo to fire back with, and keep you from having to deal with more "Nasty-Grams".

Most likely, the EC and the GC cannot collect the final retainer of this job without complete As-Builts, so that's why you are receiving "Nasty-Grams" and phone calls.

Try not to play their game of "I can out-lawyer you" and all the scare tactics involved. This will only start more trouble. Just make everything simple, clear, legal and agreed on with signed documents by both / all parties involved.

Lastly, do not in any way, shape or form, use the term "Electrical Engineer" to describe your work or involvement on the As-Built planset, unless you hold an active P.E. License for EE. This will get you into more hot water than a Steam Genny on a Fission Generating Station!!!

Good luck!

Scott

p.s. anyone of the more "legal-eze" members, care to comment on my post? please do so if I have gone in the wrong direction.

S.E.T.