ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Re: How-To, Need Quick Answer type Threads at ECN

I'd like to address one of the different comments here specifically if I can.

Bren,

I think that many here value your 'Outsiders Perspective' and the effort that you make to give us your honest opinions. I do not believe that we are totally unrelated though.

There's a lot of knowledge that goes into doing anything well. The "Pros" in one field can often benefit from the knowledge and experience brought here by others. As Electricians and Contractors I think we can benefit greatly by interaction with people in many different fields on Electrical Theory, Safety, Business matters, Project Management, Accounting, Purchasing, Employee Relations, Insurance, Legal matters and more.

I'd also like to mention that I greatly value the participation of our International Friends here. We can only benefit from the diversity of knowledge and exchange of ideas that goes on here together.

I think that we have a great bunch of people here, and a pretty good mesh going on so far where everyone brings something to the Table.

Bill

Walrus,

I can understand where you're coming from. There are many people that end up in specialized fields and don't get exposed to other areas so much. When I went to trade school there were a few Utility Linemen in the class that admittedly had no real knowledge or experience with the common devices (outlets, switches etc) or 'low voltage' (120/240v) distribution systems in their homes.

... I forgot what else I was going to say on that, ...but anyway, No one here knows everything, if they say they do they are lying ..


Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 03-29-2003).]

Never forget that the safest thing to do with an electrical system is never turn the switch on. But, after the switch is turned on, we are responsible for a series of judgments and compromises to make electricity usable, but not harm people in the process.

I think most readers here agree that this board should not be considered a place to exchange information on how to just “get by” on a Saturday for two hours. [That is what orange-aproned halfwits try to do. They don’t need our help or encouragement.]

People in general are curious, so they ask questions.
Yes a lot of these people are do it yourselfers, looking for help.
I ask the local auto mechanic questions al the time. Plus the painters, plasters carpenters and the list goes on and on.
I don't like the idea of censorship, and that is what this sounds like.
I think we should answer questions and encourage the use of qualified people as the proper solution.

You do it your way, I'll do mine.
Just the way I see it.

Russ

I think this is an area where it can be a tough call.

Somebody who just asks something like "Please tell me the cheapest quickest way to add my new wall light. I've opened the nearest receptacle box and I see a white wire and a black wire, where do I go from here?" clearly lacks even basic knowledge. In such a case, I think everybody here would be agreed as to the appropriate response ("Call an electrician!") In such cases, it's probably quite reasonable for the post to be removed, with a private e-mail explaining why.

As Bill mentioned though, there are cases where somebody has become concerned about what he sees as a possible safety hazard, and has turned to ECN for guidance. Better to ask in a forum of knowledgable sparkies than to rely upon the advice of the orange-coated "know-it-all" at the big warehouse (yes, we have 'em in this country too!).

In such cases, a reply or two pointing the concerned person in the right direction should not be out of place. Maybe in 90% of cases it will end with "Please call in somebody to check this," but if this has made that person realize that he may well have a potential hazard, then we've done our little bit toward electrical safety.

I do believe in offering advice and explanations, to the degree necessary to get the point across or to confirm/reduce anyone's fears. Getting the technical level of such explanations right and knowing where to draw the line and say "enough" is probably the hardest part.

How about this thread as an example?

(Stew, if you're reading this, I'm not in any way getting at you. I've just chosen your question as a recent example, and your concern over one obvious problem has led you to question something else you've seen. That clearly places your question in the second category.)

Ed,
I agree with you entirely. These days, so many courses seem aimed at teaching how to answer the exam questions rather than on the basis of teaching a thorough knowledge of the subject.


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 03-30-2003).]

Bill,

I agree with everything so far. I have been on many BB's since Joe and I first met on Prodigy. Since then, when ever you have a BB of qualified people who have a skill, there will aways be someone who wants free advice. If the people on this board want to give out free advice, then so be it. If not, then no one should answer their question. I don't feel that you can try to cut them off or maybe you can give them their own section. That way, anyone here who wants to answer them can. This is only a thought since you guys control the board. Anyway you want to handle it is fine by me.

Russ,

I can't agree that trying to limit participation to a certain group or related groups is censorship. I don't want to start debating civil liberties as there is a fine line where one's supposed rights can begin to infringe upon someone elses'.

I ask you to look at it like this. Suppose you are planning a Party, .. no, let's say a Wedding. The purpose is to get a select group of people together for a specific purpose. You are making all of the arrangements and footing the bill. Wouldn't you expect to have some say over the guest list, and the menu? I don't think the situation here is very much different.

Bill

Harold,

I could easily make another Forum here where anybody could get Electrical advice. I could probably sell a lot of stuff to them and maybe even get some paid Advertising there. I just don't want to do it.

This Forum is meant to be a place that primarily benefits those in the Electrical Trade and related persons. I would like to make this place as useful and comfortable to them as possible. I don't think that running a How-To clinic here would really be the best thing to do.

On another note, I try very hard to ensure that Flamewars don't start between Members here. I'd rather have you Guys (and Girls) mad at me for closing or deleting something than be mad at each other. I don't want to be put in a position where I have to protect the DIYer from Flaming too. I'm sure that everyone has seen that happen, and it's not pretty.

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 03-31-2003).]

Bill, I know it's your party, so what you say goes, and for the most part I agree. How about putting a bold notice on the main page, making sure that the users know this forum is not a DIY forum? Maybe have a few links to a few of the more popular DIY forums would help direct those who are not professionals to a DIY forum. Let me know, I can give you a few links to ones I participate in.

Rick Miell

There is often a root characteristic on many initial and reply posts here, and that’s having a working knowledge of materials and tasks that are based on electrical-code understanding. If a reader does not have some background, then any “How-To, Need Quick Answer…” posts will not be that, for considerable time may be spent getting “up to speed.”

If you read usenet electrical subjects, you know what I mean. A lot of time is spent on very basic material, and it may serve a purpose there, but I would guess that most readers here don’t want to be bogged down with elementary explanations, and anticipate finding advanced information {more suitable to a tradesperson’s needs} exchanged at E-C.net.

Another consideration is that advertisers and sponsors on this board invest with the expectation of appealing to current and likely prospective users of their wares.