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#214246 - 11/03/14 09:01 AM Anyone familiar with prefab addition wiring?  
petey_c  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 62
Miller Place, NY USA
Okay, I got a call from a customer I've known for a few years. His second floor has some issues. Fixed the first couple no problem. The third was the reason I'm writing. (okay, keyboarding) No power to one circuit. Power at the breaker, but disappears between the panel and the first device. Traced the cable back to an exterior wall. While I'm figuring out how to re-run another circuit the HO asks me to take a look at some taped up wires in the ceiling of the master bedroom. I undo one of them and it's a splice for the second floor wiring. Shouldn't these splices have remained accessible? If not for the HO, I would've been there all day. Pics are at ElectricalPhotos.com

Last edited by petey_c; 11/03/14 09:02 AM.

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#214247 - 11/03/14 10:52 AM Re: Anyone familiar with prefab addition wiring? [Re: petey_c]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,060
Estero,Fl,usa
Prefab? You mean this addition came in on a truck? (modular premanufactured building)

Amp does sell an NM connector made for the purpose that can be concealed or even fished.

http://datasheet.octopart.com/208169-1-AMP-datasheet-14548063.pdf

You are right, splices normally need to be in a box and accessible.


Greg Fretwell

#214256 - 11/04/14 03:31 AM Re: Anyone familiar with prefab addition wiring? [Re: petey_c]  
petey_c  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 62
Miller Place, NY USA
The HO said it was a prefab. I don't know if that meant the whole second floor came as one or several pieces. He wants to get rid of those connections and put them in a splice box. He'll paint the cover to match the ceiling and get the cover as flush as possible. Thanks for the info.


#214257 - 11/04/14 04:00 AM Re: Anyone familiar with prefab addition wiring? [Re: petey_c]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,060
Estero,Fl,usa
Nobody ever got in trouble doing things the right way.

The Amp splice is legal but I think we all agree a splice in an accessible box is better.
It these are just flying splices without a box it needs to be fixed.


Greg Fretwell

#214260 - 11/04/14 02:08 PM Re: Anyone familiar with prefab addition wiring? [Re: petey_c]  
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 900
Chicago Illinois USA
Those AMP connectors are UL Listed to be installed without a box; but they still need to be accessible.


Ghost307

#214261 - 11/04/14 03:36 PM Re: Anyone familiar with prefab addition wiring? [Re: ghost307]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,060
Estero,Fl,usa
Originally Posted by ghost307
Those AMP connectors are UL Listed to be installed without a box; but they still need to be accessible.


That is not really true

They come under 545.13

Quote
545.13 Component Interconnections. Fittings and connectors
that are intended to be concealed at the time of on-site
assembly
, where tested, identified, and listed to applicable
standards, shall be permitted for on-site interconnection of
modules or other building components. Such fittings and connectors
shall be equal to the wiring method employed in insulation,
temperature rise, and fault-current withstand and shall
be capable of enduring the vibration and minor relative motions
occurring in the components of manufactured buildings


The installation instructions say
Quote
B. Building Site and Dwelling Site
The separate modules of a building or
dwelling assembled on location are to
be connected elec
trically by the
simple plug-in connection (including a mechanical latch)
of mating pairs thereby providing circuit continuity.
The connected pairs may or may not be fastened in
place. The connected pairs may or may not be
concealed by the installation


Greg Fretwell

#214262 - 11/04/14 06:26 PM Re: Anyone familiar with prefab addition wiring? [Re: petey_c]  
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 900
Chicago Illinois USA
When my double-wide was set up they told me that these were used to connect the 2 units together electrically. There was a removable drywall panel in a closet that allowed access to clip them together after the units were in place.

I was told that the panel couldn't be permanently patched in afterwards because the connecteors had to stay accessible in case they needed to be repaired or replaced.

Concealing them was okay just as long as they could be gotten to at a later date.


Ghost307

#214263 - 11/04/14 07:26 PM Re: Anyone familiar with prefab addition wiring? [Re: petey_c]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,060
Estero,Fl,usa
The instructions and the code are pretty clear unless you have a local restriction.
For a while Amp was even marketing these for retrofits in regular 1&2 family dwellings but that was stopped in 99 or so.

They were seen as a way to fix that old "burned up TW wire in the ceiling luminaire" problem. They said you could splice on a piece of NM-b and shove it up in the ceiling then install an old work ceiling box. They used 334.40(B) to justify it.

Quote
(B) Devices of Insulating Material. Switch, outlet, and tap devices of insulating material shall be permitted to be used without boxes in exposed cable wiring and for rewiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed and fished. Openings in such devices shall form a close fit around the outer covering of the cable, and the device shall fully enclose the part of the cable from which any part of the covering has been removed. Where connections to conductors are by binding-screw terminals, there shall be available as many terminals as conductors.



Someone looked into it and decided these particular devices were only approved in manufactured homes, leaving open the question, what does 334.40(B) really apply to?


Greg Fretwell

#214265 - 11/04/14 09:51 PM Re: Anyone familiar with prefab addition wiring? [Re: petey_c]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,803
Brick, NJ USA
The debate went thru up here also regarding using these devices. We had conflicting answers from the 'higher-ups'.

It was 'yes you can use it for 'old' work' on Tuesday, and by Thursday...it was 'NO, unless it is within the factory that fabricates mfg homes.'

A few ECs thought that this device was the greatest thing since sliced bread; then they saw the cost, and the official "NO".



John

#214266 - 11/04/14 09:54 PM Re: Anyone familiar with prefab addition wiring? [Re: petey_c]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,803
Brick, NJ USA
We are getting an increase in pre-fab, modular homes in the recovery from hurricane Sandy. I have not seen any of these Tyco connectors used.

All in all, I have not heard of any issues.



John

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