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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445 Likes: 3
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"Remove abandoned wiring" is just one of those things that simply can't be addressed with a simple code change. Let me use a certain restaurant job to illustrate the point ...
This restaurant wanted to have "cable TV." Oddly enough, so did the last several owners of the restaurant.
Each time, the cable / satellite provider brought in his line, installed his dish, ran his cable across the rooftop. No matter that there were already several dishes installed; a new one got mounted.
Simply put, the guy was hired to bring in TV. He was not hired to remove the previous installs. "Ethics" and liability issues would discourage any attempts to use the previously installed equipment. It simply is not the responsibility of the new guy to remove the work of the previous guy.
Nor would this sort of thing ever get inspected. Even if it did, the inspector does not have the authority to tell the contractor to remove the other guys' work.
Multiply this by the multitude of phone, data, alarm, CCTV, sensor, sound system, etc., wires that folks string through theeir places. With technology changing every few years, you're guaranteed quite an assortment of cables.
Fact is, there's no telling what's in the walls without tearing the place apart. That's just not going to happen. It's not the sort of situation that lends itself to solution by regulation.
So, where is the solution? There really cannot be one, unless something changes that will make it to someones' advantage to remove the old cables.
An example of such an 'advantage' is the zeal with which old plumbing and power wiring is removed- with each increase in scrap prices. Another example is the way certain insulations are replaced with better ones, as heating bills increase.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,382 Likes: 7
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Reno:
You make some valid points above. What I refer to as 'sins of the past' is installs that did not have permits/inspections; work usually done 'after Finals/CO' issuances.
The majority of your rooftop scenario would fall into the lap of the property manager/owner, as the previous tenant is long gone.
None of the Ecs dispute the 'clean-up' (interior) as it becomes an 'extra'. It brings whatever code compliance I can achieve, lightens the loads, and creates a cleaner work enviornment.
And the bonus is 'scrap $$$'!!
BTW, one of the ECs is really heavy into recycling. Troffer bodies, ballasts, removed HIDs, etc. And yes, he recycles the fluorescent lamps.
John
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
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Another example: Who follows this rule from the NEC here; see the notes:
830.24 Mechanical Execution of Work. Network-powered
broadband communications circuits and equipment shall be
installed in a neat and workmanlike manner. Cables installed
exposed on the surface of ceilings and sidewalls shall be supported
by the building structure in such a manner that the
cable will not be damaged by normal building use. Such
cables shall be secured by hardware including straps, staples,
cable ties, hangers, or similar fittings designed and installed so
as not to damage the cable. The installation shall also conform
to 300.4(D) and 300.11.
Informational Note No. 1: Accepted industry practices are
described in ANSI/NECA/BICSI 568-2006, Standard for Installing
Commercial Building Telecommunications Cabling;
ANSI/TIA/EIA-568-B.1-2004 — Part 1 General Requirements
Commercial Building Telecommunications Cabling
Standard; ANSI/TIA-569-B-2004, Commercial Building Standard
for Telecommunications Pathways and Spaces;
ANSI/TIA-570-B-2009, Residential Telecommunications Infrastructure;
and other ANSI-approved installation standards.
Informational Note No. 2: See NFPA 90A-2009, Standard
for Installation of Air-Conditioning and Ventilating Systems,
for discrete combustible components installed in accordance
with 300.22(B) and (C).
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,931 Likes: 34
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Reno has a good point. The cables abandoned by the old cable company are probably still the property of that company but they don't want it and I bet, without legislation requiring it, they are not coming back to pull them out.
When I asked Comcast about the existing cables on my house they said they were leaving them "for my convenience" in case I went back to them. No they were not sending a tech out to take them down.
I bet if I hooked up a couple TVs to the raw cable, they would be over here right away. (the Dmark is disabled by software but everything is still connected). I am thinking about cutting the drop as far up as I can reach and letting them deal with the "ingress" problems.
Greg Fretwell
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,382 Likes: 7
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Greg:
I switched from cable to Fios. I disconnected and returned the boxes and converters to the local cable office, basically to stop the billing. They sent a tech the same day to disconnect at the pole, and he was nice enough to remove the drop & exterior splitter & ground.
I guess if someone paid for the techs time, they would remove whatever interior coax that was 'theirs'.
Coax in office space is usually gone with the demo, as the new occupants all install new systems.
John
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,931 Likes: 34
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They sent a guy to pick up the cable modem but nobody did anything with the TV stuff. I didn't have a cable box.
When my wife switched from Comcast to DirectTV at the club they didn't take out any wire.
Greg Fretwell
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 368
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From what I have been reading on some of the telephone tech forums, when fiber is installed to the house the telco comes out to pull the copper drop from the house.
As I understand it, there is an agreement with subscriber that when the copper drop is taken from the building they can't ever reinstall it to that address.
The telco's like that agreement because copper is a regulated price service and fiber telephone is not regulated.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,931 Likes: 34
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That seems to be true from what I am hearing too.
They are getting my POTS phone when the state/FCC lets them stop providing dial tone. It is still just about the only utility I can really count on.
Greg Fretwell
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
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Reno has a good point. The cables abandoned by the old cable company are probably still the property of that company but they don't want it and I bet, without legislation requiring it, they are not coming back to pull them out.
further, why write code for those who are not held to it?
~S~
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,382 Likes: 7
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Mbhydro:
The same scenario re: the POTS (copper) telco was going on here in NJ, but I cannot attest to the truth of that.
They (Fios) brought a fiber line to my house, and I still have the copper drop intact. It may have been 'cut' somewhere in the telco infrastructure, but it still is there. The tech connected the existing telco to the new fiber 'box' on the house side, checked all the lines & that was it for voice.
John
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Posts: 75
Joined: June 2012
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