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Joined: Jun 2004
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The pitch I make is that the labor cost to properly configure, measure and install the electrical system is ALWAYS related to the talent and skill of the crew.
Lowball bids mean that the other EC is using green troops prone to error and not ready for prime time.
There are essentially no buying advantages for materials between similarly sized electrical contractors. And while the really big operators do get volume breaks -- they have the fattest overhead -- and a small job is always given to their unproven troops.
Yes, illegal immigrants are running around town pitching handyman skills. By definition, anyone hiring them is TOTALLY on the hook if they get injured -- and they get injured on the job five times as often as natives. OSHA is an alien concept to them -- and whether they're Russians or Mexicans there's no doubt that they've got guts and nerve.
No need for safety tie-off lines, tennis shoes -- not boots, and they're still saving up for a hard hat! And as for working HOT -- no problem!
We ALL like to save money -- but a home is everyone's number one investment: the family lives there!
It is always possible to cheat homeowners by unscrupulous operators. Lacking a contractors bond -- or any other insurance -- just how much risk IS a homeowner getting into?
Typical handyman screw-ups:
undersized wire -- the right stuff cost more...
polarity -- what's polarity?...
sloppy rough-in -- receptacles high and low...
hacked to pieces existing wall board -- no fishing skill...
Other handyman beauties: he charges by the hour -- and is lost. So 2 hour projects take two days -- plenty of Home Depot visits for advice, though.
Handyman is color-blind: that's fun!
Handyman has his OWN color scheme: now you're color confused.
Handyman is good at running wire: not so good at figuring out what he's done... crossing hots on the same leg -- over stacking a neutral -- ultra-short taps ( got to save the 'scrap' for extra income )
Handyman can make it work but can't make it look right ( NASTY surface runs in the garage -- they really 'help' the resale value. (( If this is acceptable in the open -- what did this HO let go where it's hard to view? ))
A compilation of hack work that is still out there is worth your while.
A portfolio of your own work is also most wise.
Tesla
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 356
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Thank you all for your replies and support. I did secure the project.
For comparison i tell perspective clients that the material is similar, is not the same, it is similar. Internet sells GFCI for $2.95 but my distributor sell them for $15.00. so by similar i mean they look similar on the outside but it is the inside that counts. And i tell them that i refuse to buy and install a GFCI that is $2.95
It is the level of service that i provide, you are buying my experience and expertise when you hire me VS the hourly guy from CRAIG'S LIST who does side jobs.
Another analogy is compare targetwalmart to NORDSTROM. the service and quality that NORDSTROM provides can not be compared to TARGET, WALMART. So you can not expect me to perform on the same level with the other guy who does side jobs and/or who is a handyman.
Just for the record I don't have anything against handyman. I respect them according to the level that they want to be respected.
Be kind to your neighbor, he knows where you live
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,382 Likes: 7
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Niko:
Congrats on the win!
Yes, the 'bargain' devices (GFI/Duplex/Switches, regular and designer) are showing up more now. A resi TH/Condo developement EC learns the hard way as I do the final, and defective items are found. "Heck, I checked these out yesterday" is a response I heard many times. The source for this quality merchandise was in Greg's area, imported from the 'east'. The <$ 3.00 GFI sure costs a whole lot more when you factor in a red sticker!
BTW, I wonder what the defect and return policy is on these quality items??
John
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,382 Likes: 7
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Greg:
I only mentioned 'your area' as the EC here bought the materials from a co. based by you. The stuff is definatley 'offshore'. The labeling looks 'odd' and it was refered to a local UL office, and I have heard no more on it.
John
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,931 Likes: 34
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As I said on the IAEI BB, this is probably just the tip of the iceberg. We are really only catching the ones with poorly copied U/L stickers. I imagine there are more sophisticated counterfeiters out there. I am not sure how you would detect a useless AFCI since even the name brand people say testers do not work on their product. Any kludge of parts that trips when you push the test button could be called an AFCI.
Greg Fretwell
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Joined: Aug 2006
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One thing i don't understand why EC don't get quality material. I know it is all about coming in cheapest just to get the job. But i know if the consumer is concerned about their property and is properly educated by the EC, they will go with the better quality work and material.
Now, the consumer who has CHEAPEST tattooed on their brain, then there is nothing we can do. Doesn't matter how much the EC tries to educate them, they only want the cheapest.
Be kind to your neighbor, he knows where you live
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Joined: Jun 2004
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The Cheapo mindset comes from the perception that running wire is easy -- and what the hell -- it's going to be buried in the wall anyway.
Obviously, Mr. HomeOwner/HomeOwer normally DOES NOT have a clue as to how they can go off the rails/ burn down the house.
One example: newish townhome in Reno Nevada 100 yards from the fire station in the nicer part of town. New owners had some illegal immigrant handymen add some circuits for this and that. Took a trip to Vegas. Came back to an entirely razed ruin. Fire marshal concluded that it was electrical. This is the aspect of electrical fires: the 'starter fluid' is constantly juicing the hot zone until flash-over.
Once flash-over occurs the entire structure is toast. ( Forget all those Hollywood staged fires where the hero can run through the inferno -- no lungs can take it & the smoke is incredible.)
Losing all of your personals is a real downer even if the family gets out alive.
------
Another item with regard to salesmenship: your tool 'crib.'
One fine day, clean up and lay out your tools. ( Helps for theft identification, too.) If your pictures stink hire a semi-pro photographer. (There are a ton available on CraigsList.)
Then explain to the prospect that NO handyman has the toys to properly correct or extend his electrical system in any reasonable amount of time. So, forget about his low per-hour billing rate, he'll take forever -- IF he gets it right!
Tesla
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,158
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Thanks T
I never thought of the tool approach
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