ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Commercial Range Hood - Residential Dwelling

Well I can't speak for your house but in the 'cold' areas people die every year from CO poisoning, sometimes it is from simple as having an exhaust fan on which drags the flue gases from the oil or gas fired furnaces and boilers back down the flue and into the home.

The fact that you can see it on you barometer kind of proves the point. Now if you had a oil fired boiler in the house with the typical natural draft venting you would have some issues.

The large majority of fuel burning appliances I see are not power vented they use natural drafting, it takes very little 'low pressure' to stop the natural draft.

This is probably not an issue you see in the land of Air conditioning, heat pumps and electric resistance heating but make no mistake it can be an issue in my area.

I have heard of this thing ;-)

Actually when I lived up in the frozen north I do remember concerns about houses being too tight and having flues not breathing properly. You are right, that is not a big deal around here since 99.9% of our appliances are electric. Florida did just add CO detectors to the building code for any home with gas, oil, generators or an attached garage.

Thank you, Food Network.

It used to be that a good cook could do the job on a standard residential range. It tasted good for sure.

Nowadays, unless they have a 600,000 BTU gas commercial range with a custom hood, their food doesn't come out so great after all.

Are people really such puppets on a string with the home improvement and cooking shows holding them? It's all a marketing gimmick; these TV networks are heavily-funded by Wolf, Garland, Viking, blah, blah, blah. Take a look at the credits at the end of their shows and you will see for yourself.

"Let's convince people that they will need to invest in a $5,000.00 commercial gas range.

-Oops, too much BTU output, so the customer will need a $2,000.00 hood to prevent asphyxiation in an energy-efficient residence.

-Oh, wait a minute. They don't have gas service but they still rush out and buy one. Now comes the West Virginia Christmas decoration holder: The above-ground propane tank. They pay more money to put 20 gallons into this tank than they do with gasoline in their SUV.

-Oh, wait a minute, electric ovens are better. Now, let's convince them to invest in a $6,000.00 residential version of this commercial range that includes an electric oven. Now we really have the customers dancing."

Rachael Rae, Emmiril, Barefoot Contessa, etc. say it's best, so this is what the customers will rush to buy.

Ever notice how they focus in on the "tick-tick-tick" ignitor sound of the burner when they show them melting butter or warming olive oil?

My wife is a great cook and gets it done using a standard smooth-top electric range. She's not cooking for a restaurant, just the family or an occasional gathering. All of that "instant heat" debate is a bunch of crap. I accidentally turned on the wrong burner for ten seconds. I brushed my hand across that one and I can assure you, it was VERY hot!

I do all the cooking around here and I haven't been hampered by my slick top electric. In fact I can do some tricks you don't see on TV. Fast way to brown a couple tortillas, Smooth out a piece of aluminum foil right on the hot burner surface, a few drops of oil and slam the tortillas down. Just keep them moving and get them off the cool side. I do that when I make Fajitas after blasting the other stuff.
I do have a few gas burners but they are outside in the "country kitchen".

I am coming to your house for tortillas!

Talking to a Plumber buddy, and appartently just about all ranges have various listings as to BTU from combustable, and just about all have a range and angle from the burner, Much the same way lumens are measured from angle from the fixture and distance from the fixture are for us. And swapping out the orifice and regulators is much in the way of swapping out lamps to change it. According to this guy the only thing that would have a hard time making muster is a commercial WOK, as the BTU is way too high either way. As the BTU high range (area) makes it all the way to most cielings. But relitively easy to do with most ranges (stoves)...

Also appparently it is the range that sets the distance from range to hood and min CFM of the hood. I knew that, but makes more sense relating it to the BTU of the range....

I have read the UL standards for commercial as well as residential ranges, and there is only one substantial difference between the two.

Residential ranges have a maximum temperature specified for the exposed front face, such as an oven door. Commercial ranges do not have that spec.

So, it is conceivable that a commercial range would have an oven door that might get hot enough to burn a child that might lean against it. We don't KNOW this ... it's just that UL has not bothered to take the measurements.

I agree, it is more a case of the unknown. In all likelihood the range would perform fine.

That aside as far as I am concerned I can not knowing connect a unit with a UL tag that says Commercial in a dwelling unit.

It would be a 110.3(B) violation plain and simple.

I'm not so sure that installing a 'commercial' appliance in a residential setting (or the opposite) is, in and of itself, a violation of 110.3(B).

While the appliances are 'intended' for use in the described setting, that setting is not defined. "Commercial" suggests "commerce," that is, the exchange of money ... yet it is quite reasonable for schools, hospitals, army bases, soup kitchens, etc., to have 'commercial style' kitchens.

What is important is that the specific installation requirements be complied with, and any changes be undertaken carefully.

For example, the evaluation of many commercial appliances assumes the presence of an NFPA 96 compliant commercial range hood.
Another assumption, in many cases, seems to be that commercial appliances will be 'hard wired;' residential ones are assumed to have a cord & plug.

Whether commercial or residential, the listing ought to indicate if the appliance is intended to be 'built in' or flush mounted.

Now, the "commercial" vs. "residential" distinction seems more important in non-electrical matters. For example, 'commercial' appliances generally need NSF certification - a standard that relates more to health department concerns than anything else. "Residential" appliances have no such expectation.

I see no specific code rule that says you CANNOT place a commercial appliance in a residential setting. To simply infer such is unfounded - but it is a clue that 'usual' practices may not be adequate.

I DO caution that 'commercial' may not be any better / tougher / stronger / etc. than a 'residential' item. While in many areas there is a hierarchy of residential > commercial > industrial, that is not always the case. They are different uses, with different needs, and using one in the 'wrong' setting often has disappointing results. In other instances, the only differences are in the Federal labeling requirements.

I only dwell on this because there is a fairly large group of folks out there who actively seek "commercial" appliances in the belief that they are better than "consumer" appliances. Sometimes this is correct- at a price. In other cases, it's pure vanity. To make matters worse, there often is absolutely no "listing" difference in the different appliances.

If there is a specific hazard, then by all means point it out to the customer. At some point, however, the consumer has to take responsibility for his choices. I'm not his nanny.

In my opinion it is one of the most basic violations of 110.3(B)

I also know many inspectors feel the same.



Yes that is absolutely true, and I know for a fact that some of these people where very disappointed when they found out the expensive commercial unit would not pass inspection of either the electrical or gas.

That is why manufacturers have stepped up and now sell units that 'look' commercial but are listed for residential use.

I am at a total loss why anyone would think a unit with a UL label that says 'Commercial' would be OK for Residential.

To me that would be the same as saying a unit labeled "indoor use" is just a suggestion.