ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades 220/440V 2ph/3w service in Austria

Here's an extract from the appropriate on-line guidance note issued by U.K. Trading Standards:


The full note is here: http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/bglitem.cgi?file=BADV018-1111.txt

This link is all the garbage about CE marking: http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/bglitem.cgi?file=BADV022-1111.txt


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 09-30-2002).]

Ok, I've never heard of such requirements or recommendations here in Austria, and as I already said I really doubt they could be enforced. Probably it would cause the prices for 2nd hand ware to go up so much no one would buy it anymore. At least if this conversion had to be done by licensed electricians, which would be a good idea.

BTW, as we're already talking about radios, does any of you guys have an idea where to obtain information on a mid-1960ies? Austrian-made Eltz 551U radio?
All the valves (4 in total, probably 3+rectifier) are missing, some soldering joints are open (ripped off?), maybe it has some other problems as well. I don't have any schematics or other materials on this one, but it looks so incredibly old (much older than it can be, would've guessed mid-30ies, but it is a FM receiver, so it can't possibly be that old, also the phono in is labelled "Phono" which came up here in the mid-60ies.

The "must have a modern plug" rule here can be gotten around by selling equipment as "collectors' items, not for use" or some such phrase. The way that some of the auction places do it now is to cut off the old cord close to the apparatus so that it would be impractical to fit a plug and just use it. That really annoys me, because their stupid rules mean that sometimes perfectly good old equipment is vanadalized by the auction-house prior to sale.

Those who advocate replacing the cord with a modern one at all costs say that such a minor thing is of no consequence, but believe me, some collectors want to go to extraordinary lengths to maintain the originality of a rare item in good condition. As an example, where an old paper capacitor needs to be replaced, rather than just fit a modern polyester equivalent directly they will have the wax melted and internal contents removed from the old tubular sleeve and a modern unit installed within it, so that when refitted to the set it still looks like the original.

On the Eltz radio, I'm afraid I can't help there, as I've never heard of that make. I've tried a quick search, but can't locate any details on this one.

Do you know when FM broadcasts started in Austria exactly? I believe the first regular FM broadcast stations in the U.S. opened around 1941. In Britain, the BBC opened the first ones in 1955.

One update on this: During the 50ies and 60ies the 220/440V Edison DC system was replaced by a 127/220 3ph system w/o neutral. In the 60ies/70ies this was finally upgraded to a standard 220/380 3ph system.

Hmm.... This sounds fascinating. If the new system was 127/220 then I assume the xfmr secondaries had the star-point grounded.

If the neutral wasn't extended to each house, then all appliances must have been 220V. Did each house take only two phases, or all three?

As there was no neutral to bond, then all houses on this system must have been TT with earth-leakage breakers (GFI).

In the only house with remnants of this system there was no grounding at all, maybe some receptacles seperately bonded to the next cold water line serving as a ground rod. The rooms I saw (house was close to falling down, in some rooms the ceiling had already come down) there was 1 ungrounded outlet per room. No GFIs either, the panel consisted of an impressing amount of Diazed fuses and nothing else. (it was about 40x40 cm at least, all cramped, mounted high up on a wall, way out of my reach (and I'm 1.90m), close to the ceiling).
This house had a third line added, I don't know when this happened. Probably they ran 2 phases on the old +/- wires and disconnected the neutral. Then they added a 3rd phase and reactivated the neutral. The 3rd phase was obviously hacked in. Finally the service was 220/380V, 32A 3ph, most wiring dating from the 1930ies or earlier, some maybe 50ies. (the house was badly remuddled back then, ripping out all the beautiful old doors, putting in new floors, etc, the upper hallway for example was fake mahogony paneling and green wall-to-wall carpeting)
Originally the house was 1850ies or earlier, a beautiful large house, located in a small village back then, now in an upper-class neighborhood. Previous owners made it ready for demolition by letting the water run all winter long until it fell apart, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten demolition permit for such an old house. A real pity. Now they're erecting concrete appartment blocks on the site (8000 m2, most of it was garden when the old house was still standing).

Here in the republic of Ireland.

Older wiring : (usually very old at this stage)

E - Green
N - Black
L - Red

Newer installations follow the flexible cord colours: (required for quite some time)

E - Green & Yellow striped
N - Blue
L - Brown

Diazed fuses are the only type you'll ever see over here on distribution boards. Even modern MCB based boards have at least one main Diazed fuse just incase

Older boards would have mix of 10 and 20 amp diazed fuses (10amp - lighting, 20 amp sockets) and a RCB (inter-differential) / ELCB.

and very old would only have diazed fuses in the same configuration. ELCB/RCBs were usually retrofitted on a seperate panel by the ESB during metering upgrades though.

DC was never really used and the supply has always been very standard at 220 V @ 50 hz (380 V 3ph) Old systems would have exsisted in very limited urban areas at the turn of the century but were ripped out when the ESB (electricity supply board) began to emerge and completely took over. I think Cork City used DC for a while as power was taken from Tramway supplies until the 20s. the system was replaced and no traces exsist at all.

I noticed that Eire uses brown/blue in fixed cables as well. Do you know when the change was introduced? As you're probably aware, although in the U.K we adopted the new colors for flex in 1970, we still use the old red/black system for fixed cables.

How about current 3-phase systems in Ireland? If you have the color coding we could get Scott to add it to the list in the technical reference area.

New regs are now in place and standardise fixed cable in Ireland as follows:

Earth - Green & Yellow Striped
Neutral - Blue
Ph 1 - Brown
Ph 2 - Grey
Ph 3 - Black